Better Brakes

Danny

Administrator
Right My brakes are not great and I have been chatting to Phaeton and we are not entirely sure whats going on but one thing is we need better brakes....

The thoughts are that the rear calipers need more fluid and thats being taken away from the fronts...

So I am looking at master cylinders but I have also been looking at servos and came across this... http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/c ... rake-servo ignore the price... How would that work then?
 

Danny

Administrator
Hmmmm.... I may just make my pedal have a better throw on it and then see if that makes a difference...

The question is do I do it before or after wales???
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Let's expand on the conversation so everybody knows what we we're talking about & for the newer members to catch up. When I built my first buggy (Mary) I followed the tried & tested route of modified Mini front brakes on the rear of the buggy. This worked & passed SVA but anyone who has got these knows it's a poor handbrake. So when I built my second buggy (Mr Bumble) I decided I wanted better rear brakes so I used Golf rear callipers, modified the Mini hub slightly. This also passed SVA & to me was a far better solution than the Mini setup, it gave great braking & had a really good handbrake. I have since removed Mini front subframe (at the rear) & fitted the MGF subframe along with the MGF discs & callipers along with the K series engine which is the route that Danny has just gone down.

The problem I 'think' is the volumes of fluid needed in the braking circuit, the Mini M/C was designed to have either 4x cylinders or 2x cylinders & 2x callipers (using a Yellow tag). When the Golf rear callipers were fitted I don't think the amount of fluid need to make them work was much greater than was needed to make the Mini cylinders work, so they worked fine. But I'm convinced that the MGF callipers are a bigger diameter piston therefore to get them to move/work it needs more fluid. I believe the solution is to try to either find a M/C that has a bigger 2nd chamber for the rears, or see if it is possible to split the 2 circuits onto separate M/C's but I am not sure there is enough space.

Sorry for the ramblings, has anyone got any thoughts if I am on the right track?
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Okay just to add some numbers to this.

Mini wheel cylinder diameter 19mm
Golf piston size 36mm
MGF piston size 38mm

Which I think disproves my own theory, as with the Mini it has 4 pistons to move, it's the same fluid as moving 2 pistons in the MGF

 

Danny

Administrator
Hmmm that screws it all up...

4 pot front calipers and some better discs and pads may be the solution then
 

Danny

Administrator
that being said alan I don't thing my brakes have ever been good after I moved to the pendulum box.....
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
That being said Danny I think my initial calculations are slightly out schoolboy error it's that long since I went there.

V=πr(sq)h Volume equals pi x radius squared x height.

Therefore for the
4x Mini pistons to move 2mm = 4x 3.142x9.5(sq)x2 = 4x 567 = 2268 of something possibility millimetres of fluid
2x MGF pistons to move 2mm = 2x 3.142x19(sq)x2 = 2x 2268 = 4536 of something possibility millimetres of fluid

So I still think I am correct that we need either a bigger M/C or be able move the plunger further.

Anyone else any thoughts?
 

Danny

Administrator
Ok... so I have dug about the mc world and can't find anything.... rubbish

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 

Danny

Administrator
I am lucky that where I live I have a number of engineers as friends so after chatting to them they think the first port of call is to mess about with the pedal throw as it's all down to the angle of the rod being pushed

0a7f34b51af14c83e874340d19677c1a.jpg


So this is going to be my first port of call :)

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Danny from your highly technical drawing I can see what you are attempting, however I'm still not sure it will work. You just can't beat the maths, using the numbers from below for the Mini cylinders to move them 2mm each you have to displace 2268 of whatever unit, (it might be millilitres but I suspect there should be a decimal place) so again we have 2 knowns, 2268 & the bore of the MC is 19mm. Therefore using

height (or pedal travel) = Volume / (pi*radius squared)

pedal travel = 2268/(3.142*(9.5(sq)) = 8 so to get the pistons to move 2mm the piston in the MC has to move 8mm
pedal travel = 4536/(3.142*(9.5(sq)) = 16 so to get the pistons to move 2mm the piston in the MC has to move 16mm

So the first question really is can the piston move 16mm?

This is also assuming that the callipers pistons only have to move 2mm if they have to move more then it is exponentially more, 3mm is 24mm piston travel.
 
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