SVA fail with some worrying surprises

Paul

Member
As the topic says i failed the SVA test today! There was nothing major but a couple of points did come up which may be an issue to some of you with tests booked.
* The box section rails each side of the cockpit do not meet the 2.5mm radius test. Nothing i can do about this as it is down to the manufacture of the chassis. I will have to panel both inside and outside to comply.
* Headlamps supplied with the delux SVA kit - one of them has a left hand drive beam pattern despite being marked for uk use. Will need to obtain a new light unit.
* Mirrors supplied with the SVA kit do not meet the 2.5mm radius edge along their whole length and on the mounting boss.
* Mountney steering wheel does not meet the 2.5mm radius edge. I will make a pad to cover the spokes.
* Seat belt upper mounts do not meet the radius despite the fact that they are E-marked.
* Rear reflectors do not meet the radius despite E-marking.
Are you spotting the pattern here?
* The calculated weight of axle 2 exceeds the design weight. I listed it as 420kg but weighed it came out as 431.06kg so he has marked it as overloaded. I will need a certificate or letter from the manufacturer stating a suitable design weight in order for the paperwork to be changed. He would not let me amend the form there and then.
* Speedo sensor is mounted to front wheel so will need documentary evidence from a powered roller set up of speedo accuracy at 35, 40, 50, 60 and 70mph. Hopefully my local rolling road will be able to do this when they set up the engine in a couple of weeks.
As you can see there is nothing which will pose any major problem but one or two items which should have been resolved at manufacture.

The tester i had has just completed his IVA training and enlightened me on one or two points which will cause problems for future builders. The biggest issue is that there will be no exempt zones. This means that ANY area contactable by the sphere will be required to meet the minimum radius edge. This includes behind the steering wheel and the suspension front and rear. At the moment the suspension is only tested from the front and can be exempted by a bumper. This will no longer apply. On the subject of bumpers the ends will need to be returned back on themselves and finish no more than 35mm away from the wheel (front and rear). For tubular bumpers think of the end of a walking stick and you will get the idea. The 35mm is designed to stop a pedestrians leg becoming trapped between the bumper and tyre when manouvering or during an accident.
All items will be tested from the rear as well as the front for radius because often cars leave the road backwards when in an accident and if they contact a pedestrian then the same rules apply as for a front impact.
Fuel tanks will need to have some form of type approval. This is not a problem if using one from a type approved production vehicle but will stop you making your own. This might be one that the manufacturer needs to look into. Also the positioning of them will be an issue. They have to be separated from the passenger compartment by a bulkhead which in the event of leakage will completely prevent fuel entering the passenger compartment. There are also issues regarding where the filler cap can be located but you will need to refer to the IVA manual for this.
I am sure there will be a whole load more things which come up over the next few months but those of you building at the moment who will be going for the IVA need to look very carefully at what you are doing now to prevent a lot of wasted effort or money.
I will be trying for a retest in a few weeks time but i am happy now that i have the six months leeway to resolve the issues under the SVA criteria.
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Well not bad, but I think he was a bit keen on some of the issues. Nottingham have never questioned the 2.5mm radii of the box section, in fact when they failed my first buggy on the engine cove made from 12mm box they said that as far as they were concerned anything over 25mm box was okay as it came with 2.5mm+ radii.

Must admit on the weights I changed mine but they accepted a letter from me, but only on the last one, the previous 3 had been fine although same numbers were used.

On the Mountney, I just put some Titanfast on the spokes.

Again speedo, on my first buggy he saw the speedo was working asked how I'd calibrated it & accepted it. TBH for the sake of £26 I'd get a terratrip sensor, they are far better anyway..

But all in all not bad at all, at least you have a list & 6 months to sort it, well done.

Alan...
 

HolyCount

New member
I think you found yourself an over zealous tester there !!!!!  The box sections have passed on every other freestyle put through the test!!  Speedo being driven from the front (non driven) wheel do not need testing, just need to indicate roughly the correct order of speed.

Most of the rest is cured with edging strip.

I am not convinced at his fuel tank interpretation as to being type approved or certified ( it is for gas but not petrol)  --- will have to re-read that bit.  Not too diffucult to place the tank in it's own compartment --- but will probably be limited to behind the seat types where we can bulkhead either side.

Bumpers will be a bit of a b*gg*r though ---- probably have to weld some ends on (and cut them back off after <<Koff>> ).  As for the filler cap -- I believe they are looking at some exemption for open framed vehicles.

Fingers crossed !!!!
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Don't want to go off topic Paul, but I'm with Kev on this one, about the tanks, but I can see having to make 2 smaller tanks that go behind each seat so they can be sealed from the passenger compartment apart from the floor where drainage has to be made. Bumpers I don't see an issue, but will have to look more closely at mine before making more comments.

Alan...
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
I just had a discussion with my father, as you do, about the bumpers, so if they need some wierd curly things, i will just make some horn shaped sleeves that i can put on and then remove later. I see the easiest thing will be making a bulkhead for the petrol tank, if required, because you just make the shape of a behind the seets tank with a side missing, which is slightly bigger, then bolt it to the lower bulkhead box section and the floor.
Hope these ideas can be of any use.
Max :)
 

HolyCount

New member
Mini Mad Max":2ecpw8pz said:
I just had a discussion with my father, as you do, about the bumpers, so if they need some wierd curly things, i will just make some horn shaped sleeves that i can put on and then remove later. I see the easiest thing will be making a bulkhead for the petrol tank, if required, because you just make the shape of a behind the seets tank with a side missing, which is slightly bigger, then bolt it to the lower bulkhead box section and the floor.
Hope these ideas can be of any use.
Max :)

Methinks bolting it down won't suffice -- will need to put a gasket down to prevent any leaks finding their way under the bulkhead --- or weld a barrier along the width of the flooor and bolt the bulkhead to that -- no real problem -- just annoying !!!
 

jason_l

New member
Sorry to hear about the fail Paul, but glad you got it in before IVA and now have another 6 months. Like people have said at least you have extra time and a check list of things to just tick off as you complete them. ;D

Does sound like you got a real jobsworth though! I didn't think they would check the radius on the box section!  :eek:

Im starting to dread leaving mine till the IVA now but hopefully should go through without too many failed items  ??? I may have to drive to another centre though as i have heard LOTS of bad things about Southampton test centre  :( :eek:

Jason :p
 

collie

New member
Hey Paul,
Sorry to hear about the fail, like Alan says, doesn't sound like anything too serious, it's frustrating I'm sure,  but seems to me like everyone else has stated most can be easily sorted and gives you a detailed list to work to.

As for the petrol tank, it's causing me concerns but I still reckon that with minimal effort a fire extinguisher tank is still possible.  I know for my buggy, with the seats I've chosen, there's little or no room for a tank AND to seal it from the passenger compartment with its own firewall! :-[

Don't forget to keep us posted on your progress  8)
 

Paul

Member
Thanks for the reassurance lads. I am not worried about any of the issues raised as they are all easy fixes. Its just a bit disappointing when you buy a supposedly SVA compatible kit and find that it fails on the chassis construction. He did let me have a go with his gauge and the radius is to tight to pass. At the end of the day just because some have got through it doesn't set the precident, any of you could also fall foul of this at any station so be prepared. I will be making up some temporary panels to cover the sides which may fall off on the way back from the test centre. That A52 can be a bit bumpy in places. :)
 

collie

New member
Sorry Paul, had got to thinking about this box section some more, sometimes I get confused easily so please bare with me. :-[
Which box section, do you mean the top rail? or all the side section externally or internally? ???
 

esdebe

New member
Almost all of those issues have come up at SVA tests before.

with the Box section are you referring to the top edge if so did you not have a peice of plastic pipe cliped over it, this is how most buggies are passed.

Mirrors another common one the solution is to file off any sharp bits of flassing that were left over from manufacture and then edge the metal end of the mount with rubber U esding then put the mirror on it, I had to do this to pass.

Seat belts, mine were queried but he never wrote it down, the issue is that they are outside the car and have to meet different requirements than if they were inside the car.  Take a look at a scrap yard for some Vauxhaul motors, they have Large plasitc clips over the tops of the seat belt mounts, get a caouple of these and find a way to clip them onto yours, they should be radiused enough,

Rear reflectors, again this has been raised as an issue before, and was one reason why Dave was going to stop supplying the SVA Delux kit and let people source their own lights / mirrors / reflectors etc.  If you can't find a way to trim them up then you may need to get some other alternative.

I'm suprised that the rear axle being so heavy, how big is your fuel tank?  The original figgures were based on a single fire extinguisher.

I'm with Alan on the speedo get a teratrip sender and connect it to the gearbox.
 

Paul

Member
The box section i am refering to is the lattice work on the sides of the buggy. I already have the split plastic pipe over the top rail so this is not an issue.
 

collie

New member
Paul":3pard5od said:
The box section i am refering to is the lattice work on the sides of the buggy. I already have the split plastic pipe over the top rail so this is not an issue.
Ok, thanks, not an issue for me on the inside of the cockpit, but on the outside I'm a little worried  :-[
 

jason_l

New member
collie":2srfsv8g said:
Paul":2srfsv8g said:
The box section i am refering to is the lattice work on the sides of the buggy. I already have the split plastic pipe over the top rail so this is not an issue.
Ok, thanks, not an issue for me on the inside of the cockpit, but on the outside I'm a little worried  :-[

See i have the opposite, i have moved my side panels to the outside of the car so now the lattice is on the inside of the car!

It seems very picky to me, i mean the steel box section has been made that way, to add an extra rounded radius to the edge is a big job. I know it can just be covered up but they know fully well we will just remove it afterwards.

Im not looking forward to the IVA now  :( Why didn't i just go for the SVA like i was going to  :'(
 

Paul

Member
You would have been alright with the lattice on the inside of the car with the sva if you had front and rear bumpers as they effectively raise the floor height, but from what the examiner was saying there are no exception areas under the IVA so you may need to be prepared with some temporary covers in case they do pick it up.

One possible saving for those of you building for iva is that with no exemptions there is no need to fabricate or buy a front bumper to hide the suspension so saving some time/money.
 

jason_l

New member
Paul":2lmwnia6 said:
One possible saving for those of you building for iva is that with no exemptions there is no need to fabricate or buy a front bumper to hide the suspension so saving some time/money.

Unless like me you bought and fitted the bumpers. Then removed and sold them!  :D Im hopefully making a custom front bumper myself and im going to look at great detail at the IVA regs to make sure that it hopefully wont fail because of it. The more i can house in the better i think!

Jason :p
 

collie

New member
I bought front and rear bumpers with my kit, plus I quite like them, but I see even the design of these is up for IVA scrutiny. Damn i feel like quitting already  :mad:
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
Do you think that we could make a petition and send it around all the clubs? I doubt that it would work, but why do they have to make it so impossible to pass? ???
 
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