Front Negative Camber

collie

collie

New member
Hi all and Happy new year!

I managed to set up my buggy so all the front end is now together, but the front wheels appear to have too much negative camber!
The bottom arms and tie rods are adjustable and I've adjusted them to their shortest length to give as much positive camber as possible but to no avail!

HELP PLEASE! :cry:
 
E

esdebe

New member
I have adjustable bottom arms, they are of the kind with two ends with oposite threads that twist into a center piece to adjust the length. I had to chop 1cm off each thread so I could make it shorter and as such give more Positive camber. The adjustable arms are used on Minis to give more negative camber, so you need to modify them a bit to make that positive.

Simon
 
F

FFTS

New member
Whats the idea of either _ + camber and which is which? Wheels in at the bottom is + I guess?
 
collie

collie

New member
It's becoming clear now!
Esdebe, I guess you got something like these from Minisport?
SPDSP431A.jpg

I'm gonna have to dig in my pockets again methinks!
 
collie

collie

New member
"FFTS"":3pdadz7t said:
Whats the idea of either _ + camber and which is which? Wheels in at the bottom is + I guess?
Click to expand...
You got it, Negative camber is when the top of the wheel leans into the body. This usually occurs when the car has been lowered, or i think it might be required for stability when racing (to combat body roll?), I'm guessing that's why they have negative camber kits, I never thought that the "adjustable" bottom arms I bought would be negative adjustable only!?
 
F

FFTS

New member
So negative sounds an advantage for stability but wheres the advantage of + camber and why do we need it on a freestyle??
?
Negative sounds good to me so whats the argument for +
 
Phaeton

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
You don't want postive camber, it'd just be so skittish & you'd get massive understeer. Alex, I wouldn't worry too much about the negative camber Chris's (Lola/mary) is running on standard bottom arms & the front end has always felt very planted.

However if you wanted to go for them I would suggest these from P&L Mini's (or similiar) Click MattBlack put them on his, you just have to shorten one end this way. I would however strongly suggest adjustable on the rear.

Alan...
 
Danny

Danny

Administrator
Hello,

When I first drove my buggy it used standard bottom arms and I lost it through a roundabout and decided something needed to be done.

adjustable bottom arms sorted me ( £92 a corner) which is so expensive now but still rose jointed heavy duty ect.

On my rebuild I will be using all adjustable front and back

Danny
 
E

esdebe

New member
Danny you probably lost it on a roundabout becauseof your driving style ;) However, I think the car also looks wrong with too much camber hence using adjustables.

Yes the adjustable I have are similar to that picy above.

One down side of too much camber (in either direction) is un-even tyre ware.

The amount of camber that was recomended in the early build manuals was:-

2 Degrees Negative (+ or - 1) at the front (so between 1 and 3 degrees)

1 Degree Negative at the rear.

I made asimple pendulum based tool to measure the camber that you place on the wheel rim, and where the pendulum swings to shows the degrees it is out by, if you want email be and I'll send you the Teplate for you to print and cust out and then you can stick it to a piece of wood / something with a flat edge that is able to make contact with the with the rim.

<myname> (at) esdebe (dot) com

Simon
 
collie

collie

New member
"Phaeton"":2ayhzfi6 said:
You don't want postive camber, it'd just be so skittish & you'd get massive understeer. Alex, I wouldn't worry too much about the negative camber Chris's (Lola/mary) is running on standard bottom arms & the front end has always felt very planted.

However if you wanted to go for them I would suggest these from P&L Mini's (or similiar) Click MattBlack put them on his, you just have to shorten one end this way. I would however strongly suggest adjustable on the rear.

Alan...
Click to expand...
Alan, I actually fitted a set of adjustables exactly as in your link! I think I'll be saving them for the rear now and getting the other type for the front. I need to get some new bottom arms for the rear any way, especially since the ones I took off the donor are knackered! :roll:
 
iank

iank

New member
Wouldn't bother with rose jointed suspension unless racing. Off road is even worse, if they get gritty mud/water in the joint they wear out very quickly (10's of miles).

If you want firmer suspension polybushes are a better bet.
 
collie

collie

New member
I ended up ordering the adjustable lower arms like Simon's and a set of standard bushes for the arms and tie rods.
I figure there is so little weight on the front end that uprated bushes won't really make much difference?
 
collie

collie

New member
Just wanted to post an update. I fitted the cut down lower arms as you described esdebe, and I had a small amout of positive camber, approx 2 turns of the centre nut and it came in true. I'm a lot happier with the front end now and ready to move on to the other side, which embarrasingly I can't do yet because I only ordered 2 bushes, I thought they came in pairs! (Well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it! :p )
 
Danny

Danny

Administrator
Hmmm, I have had my rose jointed bottom arms on my buggy for 5 years now...(Christ that long) and they are still perfect.

I was surprised especially as one of my local offroading venues is just sand.

I will probably go with rose jointed on the front of my rebuild

Danny
 
Danny

Danny

Administrator
At the moment my buggy is sat on the ground I have fitted adjustable bottom arms like simons and adjustabke tie bars but when the buggy is sat on the floor pan I just cant see how they are every going to meet. I have cut 6mm off as simon said on the phone a total of 12mm on each bottom arm but still doesnt look right.

The only thing I can think of is that because its sat on its floorpan this is causing nothing to line up.

Danny
 
E

esdebe

New member
the bottom arms need to have about 1 or 2 inches to drop below the floor level so ut a block of wood or a brick under the front.

If you still have a problem post a photo so we can see what you mean. Have you made sure that both ends are screwed into the middle as far as they can go?

Simon
 
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