Second Radiator
- Thread starter collie
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Lime&Orange
New member
Standard Mini Fog Mover!
I use it more as a way of reducing engine/radiator temp than keeping warm.
The copper pipe is 2 x 15mm, one in, one out (of course) on top of each other, rather than running 2 pipes side by side (less room taken up).
Standard Mini Pedal Box, modified.
Will take pics over weekend of the pedal box.
I use it more as a way of reducing engine/radiator temp than keeping warm.
The copper pipe is 2 x 15mm, one in, one out (of course) on top of each other, rather than running 2 pipes side by side (less room taken up).
Standard Mini Pedal Box, modified.
Will take pics over weekend of the pedal box.
I ran a standard radiator for years, but had to fit a second fan (Electric fan from Metro) on the out side. This did the trick. But have recently changed to a four core rad and a Midget fan blade. This converts it from a blow type fan to a sucking type fan. Went out for a good drive the other day and it seems to be staying cool. I just need to see how it copes with warmer weather.
If it does not work, I will go back to the two fans.
I will keep you posted.
If it does not work, I will go back to the two fans.
I will keep you posted.
If you are running copper pipes and soldering in reducers make sure that they can not move or vibrate as solder is very brittle. The last thing you want is a joint going and spraying hot coolant all over the occupants. For what it would cost i would use copper to make a pattern and then get a local engineering or air con company to weld up copies in aluminium.
Radar
Member
Hi Guys ...guess who is now a full on victim of the cooling wars on these buggys . Picked up my buggy from Bristol Saturday and drove it to Chester (around 200 miles) it's running a 2 core rad with a permanently switched electric fan on the outside of rad sucking air and the usual yellow mechanical fan on the other side pushing air thru ...was this effective ?? errrr nope the temp running at 40 50 60 was HOT made no difference kept it at steady 50 -55 mph just so I could get there and not impeded traffic. The gauge was off the scale I know I was taking a risk but had no choice.It was very warm these past 2 days which is great for driving but not for cooling.
I will be looking to sort this problem once and for good I can't be putting up with worries of cooking the engine lol..!
1.
Thinking of a 3 or 4 core rad swap any suggestions as to which is better and kind of cooling improvements likely .to be gained over a 2 core .(still leaving electric fan in addition )
2.
Same as Alans thoughts rad up front battery at rear or somewhere else maybe.
3.
Uprated water pump a heater matrix/ second rad mounted maybe between frame up at head height passenger sideoutside of car between the upright and curve with purpose made cowling /air induction housing.similar to F1
Any suggestions as to what else may be the cause of the overheating ? poor fuel mix ? the buggy was running rough at 50 mph like fuel starvation was the cause below 50 was fine above 50 was fine but 48-52 there abouts it ran as if starved of fuel ??..any suggestions would be gratefully read... thanks in advance....
oh and day 2 Today I came up from Chester to Newcastle same thing ran it in 40 mile hops at HOT off the scale temp gauge but it got me there 200 miles !! only problem was the stops for refuelling and to let the engine cool for 20 mins each time but within 10 miles up the motorway ! HOT off the scale again..
Anyway despite my first 2 days of ownership it got me home and it's not cooked ...welcome to the world of funbuggys eh guys ?? lmao
feels like home
Pete
I will be looking to sort this problem once and for good I can't be putting up with worries of cooking the engine lol..!
1.
Thinking of a 3 or 4 core rad swap any suggestions as to which is better and kind of cooling improvements likely .to be gained over a 2 core .(still leaving electric fan in addition )
2.
Same as Alans thoughts rad up front battery at rear or somewhere else maybe.
3.
Uprated water pump a heater matrix/ second rad mounted maybe between frame up at head height passenger sideoutside of car between the upright and curve with purpose made cowling /air induction housing.similar to F1
Any suggestions as to what else may be the cause of the overheating ? poor fuel mix ? the buggy was running rough at 50 mph like fuel starvation was the cause below 50 was fine above 50 was fine but 48-52 there abouts it ran as if starved of fuel ??..any suggestions would be gratefully read... thanks in advance....
oh and day 2 Today I came up from Chester to Newcastle same thing ran it in 40 mile hops at HOT off the scale temp gauge but it got me there 200 miles !! only problem was the stops for refuelling and to let the engine cool for 20 mins each time but within 10 miles up the motorway ! HOT off the scale again..
Anyway despite my first 2 days of ownership it got me home and it's not cooked ...welcome to the world of funbuggys eh guys ?? lmao
feels like home
Pete
Congratulations Pete, good first journey was it solo or with support car?
As for radiators the one on Bumble is a 3 core with a standard fan. If I was going to buy a replacement I would go for either the 2 or 4 core, heard all the grasstrackers use & love the 2 core but they only do short stints, at full chat, but not for a long time like a road car so not sure which to recommend. Is there a thermostat in & if so does it open up well. Mixture & timing will have an effect, does it have antifreeze in, bit bizarre question asking in summer, but anti-freeze lifts the boiling point & allows the water to flow better. Water wetter is another product consider, also fitting a metal hot country fan.
But all that aside, my advice would be, get timing & mixture checked (rolling road best), change the radiator (to your preference) fit a heater matrix to keep your feet warm (or put it at the back) it also increase the total capacity of the system. The finally I would install a expansion bottle, seal the top of the radiator, feed the small pipe from the radiator into the expansion bottle & tee the bottle into the heater matrix loop.
Alan...
As for radiators the one on Bumble is a 3 core with a standard fan. If I was going to buy a replacement I would go for either the 2 or 4 core, heard all the grasstrackers use & love the 2 core but they only do short stints, at full chat, but not for a long time like a road car so not sure which to recommend. Is there a thermostat in & if so does it open up well. Mixture & timing will have an effect, does it have antifreeze in, bit bizarre question asking in summer, but anti-freeze lifts the boiling point & allows the water to flow better. Water wetter is another product consider, also fitting a metal hot country fan.
But all that aside, my advice would be, get timing & mixture checked (rolling road best), change the radiator (to your preference) fit a heater matrix to keep your feet warm (or put it at the back) it also increase the total capacity of the system. The finally I would install a expansion bottle, seal the top of the radiator, feed the small pipe from the radiator into the expansion bottle & tee the bottle into the heater matrix loop.
Alan...
When adding the expansion bottle make sure that you bring the return from the bottle into the hot side of the heater matrix loop so the water goes through the matrix before returing to the engine or you may cause other heating issues due to the water being hotter from the expansion bottle than the bottom of the radiator.
Radar
Member
Just a recap my buggy built by dave and his dad has been with me 3 days and has very big overheating at motorway speeds problem.
Its running a 1275 cc engine with a mini spares 2 core rad with standard fan on water pump side pushing the air thru and switched manually electric fan on other side of rad pulling air thru (the electric fan is always on manually switched at startup and left running ) thermostat has been removed from top hose cylinder head area so coolant flows freely at all temps (however just discovered no blanking sleeve fitted )
thanx for the replies guys last owner had ...thermostat removed from housing (at top hose) to aid with cooling
however I did not know this and today began my initial "lets see if i can sort it work" removed all the brackets etc and housing only to find no mechanical thermostat !!! grrr however all was not wasted as also found that previous owner removed stat but did NOT install a divertor/blanking sleeve in its place so that definately does not help cylinder head stay cool as the flow from waterpump tends to go straight up and back thru top hose back into rad without fully circulating the cylinder head espescially numbers 3 + 4 cylinder...so have ordered one to install and takes care of that little problem...
I did some calculations on capacity etc and with the set up the previous owner had it should really have pissed all over the overheating problem so I definately think it's NOT just a cooling issue ie - rad size or efficency or coolant capacity- or water pump / faulty electronic temp gauge most likely a combination of all of these.. I think its a timing issue retard and advance etc a carb issue less likely but a contributing factor definately an IGNITION problem /mixture fault running to weak . Will also be looking at the dissy which may be off a 998 ccc not 1275 (I am guessing here ) will check it's numbers /markings to confirm whether it is the lower rated 998 version just in case which may well be another reason the ignition of the fuel is running way hot.
the electronic temp gauge which is direct into cylinder head block apparently has been checked and changed along with the gauge by the previous owner in an attempt to solve the problem so at the moment I am leaving that alone as all things point to other areas .
Its not the head gasket no gas bubbles in coolant heating it up plus the temp gauge comes down into normal paremeters when sitting in slow moving traffic this would not happen if the head gasket was at fault as even at low revs / slow traffic (walking pace or below) these gases would still be superhot from the combustion process and leaking into water jacket thus heating up coolant /engine regardless of speed !.
Hope I have made sense guys I am no mechanic by any stretch of the imagination and am new to these engines (totally) and have only had a day on the problem so forgive me if my theory or any part of this seems way off base I am in a steep learning curve ! lmao..
anyway will keep you posted when I get more time .
Pete
Its running a 1275 cc engine with a mini spares 2 core rad with standard fan on water pump side pushing the air thru and switched manually electric fan on other side of rad pulling air thru (the electric fan is always on manually switched at startup and left running ) thermostat has been removed from top hose cylinder head area so coolant flows freely at all temps (however just discovered no blanking sleeve fitted )
thanx for the replies guys last owner had ...thermostat removed from housing (at top hose) to aid with cooling
however I did not know this and today began my initial "lets see if i can sort it work" removed all the brackets etc and housing only to find no mechanical thermostat !!! grrr however all was not wasted as also found that previous owner removed stat but did NOT install a divertor/blanking sleeve in its place so that definately does not help cylinder head stay cool as the flow from waterpump tends to go straight up and back thru top hose back into rad without fully circulating the cylinder head espescially numbers 3 + 4 cylinder...so have ordered one to install and takes care of that little problem...
I did some calculations on capacity etc and with the set up the previous owner had it should really have pissed all over the overheating problem so I definately think it's NOT just a cooling issue ie - rad size or efficency or coolant capacity- or water pump / faulty electronic temp gauge most likely a combination of all of these.. I think its a timing issue retard and advance etc a carb issue less likely but a contributing factor definately an IGNITION problem /mixture fault running to weak . Will also be looking at the dissy which may be off a 998 ccc not 1275 (I am guessing here ) will check it's numbers /markings to confirm whether it is the lower rated 998 version just in case which may well be another reason the ignition of the fuel is running way hot.
the electronic temp gauge which is direct into cylinder head block apparently has been checked and changed along with the gauge by the previous owner in an attempt to solve the problem so at the moment I am leaving that alone as all things point to other areas .
Its not the head gasket no gas bubbles in coolant heating it up plus the temp gauge comes down into normal paremeters when sitting in slow moving traffic this would not happen if the head gasket was at fault as even at low revs / slow traffic (walking pace or below) these gases would still be superhot from the combustion process and leaking into water jacket thus heating up coolant /engine regardless of speed !.
Hope I have made sense guys I am no mechanic by any stretch of the imagination and am new to these engines (totally) and have only had a day on the problem so forgive me if my theory or any part of this seems way off base I am in a steep learning curve ! lmao..
anyway will keep you posted when I get more time .
Pete
Pete, Just looking at the pictures that Kev (Holycount) put up of the buggy when it was a Exeter. A possible reason maybe that wonderful petrol tank, could the fan be starved of air to push through the radiator? My last buggy was open at the back & I had cooling problems, this one is more closed in & doesn't, but the drivers side is wide open. MattBlack who doesn't post here anymore has built a small air scope out of chequer plate on top of the engine cover & then using 4" flexipipe for an extractor fan diverts the air down to his radiator & has no problems now. I was only at his yesterday getting it through the MOT could have taken some pictures.
Alan...
Alan...
Radar
Member
Thanx Alan for your input ...3 things make me think that what you say in my case does not apply..
1.
I ran the buggy almost all the way home ( 400 miles) with the engine cover off completely .Phsycologically it helped my nerves about seizing and cooking the engine but made NO difference at all to the HOT running temp.
2.
There is an air scoop fitted directly between the seats at shoulder height will take pic and post asap. its about 3" high by approx 10" in length this funnels air directly into engine bay (dont know how effective it is but it's got to help right ? lol.
3.
There is an air scoop fitted to the underside of car it is large and has a flat profile it curves at the engine bay area to direct air up into bay and across sump . This must certainly put a reasonable qty of cooler air into engine bay area plus on sump can't be bad.The air scoop is well thought out and designed and a very good idea for little money I'd say.
Also previous owner temp mounted a fan on drivers side of engine bay to push air across the engine towards rad ...and it made no difference apparently.
Anyway if I knew what I was doing I would be dangerous.....lmao
anyhow still here still tinkering will keep you advised..
oh 1 more thing the rad fins look a little ropey to me blocked and quite a few bent damaged probably during install. I would say maybe 10-15% look ify..do you think that could be a BIG or minor contributing factor ?.
regards to all
Pete
1.
I ran the buggy almost all the way home ( 400 miles) with the engine cover off completely .Phsycologically it helped my nerves about seizing and cooking the engine but made NO difference at all to the HOT running temp.
2.
There is an air scoop fitted directly between the seats at shoulder height will take pic and post asap. its about 3" high by approx 10" in length this funnels air directly into engine bay (dont know how effective it is but it's got to help right ? lol.
3.
There is an air scoop fitted to the underside of car it is large and has a flat profile it curves at the engine bay area to direct air up into bay and across sump . This must certainly put a reasonable qty of cooler air into engine bay area plus on sump can't be bad.The air scoop is well thought out and designed and a very good idea for little money I'd say.
Also previous owner temp mounted a fan on drivers side of engine bay to push air across the engine towards rad ...and it made no difference apparently.
Anyway if I knew what I was doing I would be dangerous.....lmao
anyhow still here still tinkering will keep you advised..
oh 1 more thing the rad fins look a little ropey to me blocked and quite a few bent damaged probably during install. I would say maybe 10-15% look ify..do you think that could be a BIG or minor contributing factor ?.
regards to all
Pete
esdebe":3up8roxz said:
Simon,
Just fitted an expansion bottle, matrix pipe comes off No4 for about a foot & then I have teed the expansion bottle in at that point, it then goes to the matrix at the front, I have also got the small pipe off the side of the radiator going into the expansion. There's about an inch of water in the expansion until I start it up & then it nearly fills all the way up, I'm sure this didn't happen with the last one & I thought I had it returning on the cool side of the expansion.
These are with the engine switched off
These are with the engine switched running
Not sure it makes a difference, but it's taking up all the expansion extra straight away.
Alan...
Alan, Not sure if you should be using the T, you would be better of having the pipe coming off the Number 4 going to the heater matrix, the heater matrix returning into the expansion tank and the tank bottom hose then going back to the bottom hose.
I think that you must also have an airlock somewhere for the water level to be expanding that much.
The mini pump will pull more water from the main radiator than it is pulling through the heater matrix, especialy with the length of hose you now have so putting the expansion tank and resiviour in the way you have you probably have little flow using the T, using a feed in and a feed out allows gravity to help with the flow of things. as it stands you could actualy end up with water going into number 4 rather than coming out (due to gravity)
I think that you must also have an airlock somewhere for the water level to be expanding that much.
The mini pump will pull more water from the main radiator than it is pulling through the heater matrix, especialy with the length of hose you now have so putting the expansion tank and resiviour in the way you have you probably have little flow using the T, using a feed in and a feed out allows gravity to help with the flow of things. as it stands you could actualy end up with water going into number 4 rather than coming out (due to gravity)
Isn't that the opposite way to what you wrote before?esdebe":2ztyqh0l said:
I used a tee on Mary but as I said I thought it was in the return not the flow. I can't go 4, Matrix, Expansion, Bottom hose as my expansion only has 1 outlet. What is happening now is that the water is being sucked out of the radiator as Andy suggested to fill the expansion, in fact some water is being fed back onto the radiator via the 6mm bleed pipe. Bugger now I've cut the pipes they won't reach, will have to get another connector, unless I reverse the flow through the matrix, which thinking about it I can' see an issue with.
Alan...
It's not the oposite, all I was saying is that before the water goes back to the botom pipe it shoudl have been cooled. The flow would need to go either number 4 to heater matrix to expansion bottle to bottom pipe or number 4 to expansion bottle to heater matrix to bottom pipe.
If the expansion bottle is being filled up by the over flow on the mini rad, then Hot water would be being put into the expansion bottle that hasn't been cooled so the second route would be optimal.
Either way getting the water to flow into the higher inlet on the bottle and come out of the bottom outlet would be better than having it go in and out using the t from the matrix circuit.
Simon
If the expansion bottle is being filled up by the over flow on the mini rad, then Hot water would be being put into the expansion bottle that hasn't been cooled so the second route would be optimal.
Either way getting the water to flow into the higher inlet on the bottle and come out of the bottom outlet would be better than having it go in and out using the t from the matrix circuit.
Simon