Tracking Question for Jerry but also anyone else :-)
- Thread starter Phaeton
- Start date
No worries Jerry, he got his phone out went to the calculator & announce that's about 4.4 degrees that we need or 2.2 each wheel. We ended up with 1.8 & 2.6 so i didn't think it was tto bad. It's a lot better but the rear still seems a little jittery coming off the power, might just be me being a big jessie & need to get used to it. i have however noticed that it sits a little low on the drivers side maybe 5-10mm so could the rubber jobby be a bit tired?
Alan...
Alan...
wurzell
Member
One of the many problems that appeared after I'd put my Frame on the Road for the first time, was associated with the rear tracking adjustment and locking method......Although in principle, and execution it appears to be a suitable and practical design to use, with short steel shaft, bonded rubber bush with standard Mini trackrod end for adjustment of the tracking, in practice I had all sorts of problems with them........
The rubber bush, even when new, flexes and moves around within the "eye". Running my car with maximum ride height, for increased ground clearance and with 14" wheels with tall tyres increases the "leverage" on these locked steering arms, and leads to variations in, and constantly changing rear tracking. Also increased tyre grip gives the trackrod ends and Rubber bush a very hard life, and after a few miles, even gentle road use we had measurable wear and float in the rear tracking. For anyone that questions this, might I suggest jacking their frame up and checking the play and movement ,even after a short period of time. Having used all NEW parts, the slack in the system is quite an eye opener!! :shock:
This also transfers all of this "Road Stress" onto the next weakest link in the chain, the steering arm that bolts to the hub, I had constant problems with the two bolts coming loose, and the steering arms falling off!!
Therefore, first, best modification is to use the Heavy Duty Cooper 'S' steering arms, carefully fitted with preferably uprated bolts, with drilled heads LOCKWIRED ON, and use the standard steel locktabs. This guarantees the increased grip and leverage does not break or cause your steering arms to "fall off"!!
Obviously then, if the tracking is constantly altering from power on to power off, effectively the rear end is steering itself!! Not really what you want in your carefully built pride and joy, basically a minor design fault...
After a bit of thought, I came up with an idea to improve the rear tracking adjustment and locking set up. By doing away with the Standard steel "Threaded eyebolt" parts, and making a solid, adjustable link system, you completely eliminate this flexing problem, and make the rear tracking much easier and quicker to adjust.........
I used a short length of machined steel rod, one end right hand thread, the other end left hand thread, with a nut welded in the centre for an adjuster. Used Left hand threaded Rose Joint one end, sealed up with a rubber protective boot to keep the crap out, suitable spacers for the mounting bolt clearance, with the Standard Mini Track Rod End the other, either short or long type. When its all fitted together, using the original Freestyle subframe plates and bolts, you have a COMPLETELY RIGID Rose jointed, fully adjustable steering arm linkage that totally does away with any flex or movement, no matter what your chosen ride height or tyre choice, yet remains fully operational and adjustable.
THIS SOLVED MY REAR STEERING AND TRACKING WOES INSTANTLY!!
Cant remember exact sizes or part numbers, although I've a record somewhere of everything I used, if anyones interested in doing a similar conversion, I could email some photo's to you, or supply all the parts to do this conversion for £70 including postage.
Although this might seem a little pricey, you only have to do it ONCE, it completely eliminates rear steer and tracking problems, makes tracking adjustment on the car quicker and easier, with no need to "drop" the track rod ends to allow adjustment, and seems to prolong the average life of the Standard Mini Track Rod ends too!!
Well worth the investment.....
Further information, email Jon Way at [email protected], or telephone 01823 279026 or 07815082465 Mobile.
The rubber bush, even when new, flexes and moves around within the "eye". Running my car with maximum ride height, for increased ground clearance and with 14" wheels with tall tyres increases the "leverage" on these locked steering arms, and leads to variations in, and constantly changing rear tracking. Also increased tyre grip gives the trackrod ends and Rubber bush a very hard life, and after a few miles, even gentle road use we had measurable wear and float in the rear tracking. For anyone that questions this, might I suggest jacking their frame up and checking the play and movement ,even after a short period of time. Having used all NEW parts, the slack in the system is quite an eye opener!! :shock:
This also transfers all of this "Road Stress" onto the next weakest link in the chain, the steering arm that bolts to the hub, I had constant problems with the two bolts coming loose, and the steering arms falling off!!
Therefore, first, best modification is to use the Heavy Duty Cooper 'S' steering arms, carefully fitted with preferably uprated bolts, with drilled heads LOCKWIRED ON, and use the standard steel locktabs. This guarantees the increased grip and leverage does not break or cause your steering arms to "fall off"!! Obviously then, if the tracking is constantly altering from power on to power off, effectively the rear end is steering itself!! Not really what you want in your carefully built pride and joy, basically a minor design fault...
After a bit of thought, I came up with an idea to improve the rear tracking adjustment and locking set up. By doing away with the Standard steel "Threaded eyebolt" parts, and making a solid, adjustable link system, you completely eliminate this flexing problem, and make the rear tracking much easier and quicker to adjust.........
I used a short length of machined steel rod, one end right hand thread, the other end left hand thread, with a nut welded in the centre for an adjuster. Used Left hand threaded Rose Joint one end, sealed up with a rubber protective boot to keep the crap out, suitable spacers for the mounting bolt clearance, with the Standard Mini Track Rod End the other, either short or long type. When its all fitted together, using the original Freestyle subframe plates and bolts, you have a COMPLETELY RIGID Rose jointed, fully adjustable steering arm linkage that totally does away with any flex or movement, no matter what your chosen ride height or tyre choice, yet remains fully operational and adjustable.
THIS SOLVED MY REAR STEERING AND TRACKING WOES INSTANTLY!!
Cant remember exact sizes or part numbers, although I've a record somewhere of everything I used, if anyones interested in doing a similar conversion, I could email some photo's to you, or supply all the parts to do this conversion for £70 including postage.
Although this might seem a little pricey, you only have to do it ONCE, it completely eliminates rear steer and tracking problems, makes tracking adjustment on the car quicker and easier, with no need to "drop" the track rod ends to allow adjustment, and seems to prolong the average life of the Standard Mini Track Rod ends too!!
Well worth the investment.....
Further information, email Jon Way at [email protected], or telephone 01823 279026 or 07815082465 Mobile.
I've found that www.gprdirect.com sell all mannor of lh and rh threaded components that could help, they even sell LH and RH threaded weld on tube inserts so you can make your own.
Simon
Simon
iank
New member
Rally Design also stock rod ends and inserts in LH and RH threads.
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/ click on shop, then rod end rod end bearings.
http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/ click on shop, then rod end rod end bearings.
Liking Wurzell's idea but finding it a bit expensive I've been looking round for a slightly cheaper solution. Eventually after trawling the interweb for quite sometime & even considered bringing some stuff in from the Good 'Ol US of A***holes I found a company in the UK selling all the pieces I needed. They comprise of a L/H male rose joint, a L/H insert, a L/H 1/2 locking nut, a R/H insert & a R/H 1/2 locking nut, combine that with locally sourced 3" bolt, piece of tube for the sleeve & a piece of tube for the spacers I had the makings of my own fully adjustable rear tie-bar.
Basic bits
The bolt is threaded through the R/H insert & welded at the back, this is then welded into one end of the tube, the L/H insert is welded into the other & then the R/H 1/2 locknut is tightened up & tack welded in front of the R/H insert to put a spanner on to adjust. You may need another R/H 1/2 locknut depending on your adjustment & what is currently on your existing tie-bars. The worst bit really is cutting the tube for the spacers & keeping the cuts square. At the end you have one of these puppy's
Tie-Bar fitted
Track rod end
Bracket end
Top view
I bought enough parts to make 5 sets, mine are already fitted, another 2 sets have already been spoken for which leaves 2 sets available. If anybody wants then the cost is just above material cost at £40 delivered.
The rose joints are of the highest standard & are commonly in use on F1 Stockcars, there were gheaper alternatives but I was reccomended to use these. I also asked about fitting rubber boots, but advised against them, theory being although they do keep some of the crap off the rosejoint any that does get in can't get back out again & does more damage. The supplier has over 25 years in Stockcar racing & uses the components on both track & road.
If your interested contact me on alan at phaeton dot plus dot com
Alan...
Basic bits
The bolt is threaded through the R/H insert & welded at the back, this is then welded into one end of the tube, the L/H insert is welded into the other & then the R/H 1/2 locknut is tightened up & tack welded in front of the R/H insert to put a spanner on to adjust. You may need another R/H 1/2 locknut depending on your adjustment & what is currently on your existing tie-bars. The worst bit really is cutting the tube for the spacers & keeping the cuts square. At the end you have one of these puppy's
Tie-Bar fitted
Track rod end
Bracket end
Top view
I bought enough parts to make 5 sets, mine are already fitted, another 2 sets have already been spoken for which leaves 2 sets available. If anybody wants then the cost is just above material cost at £40 delivered.
The rose joints are of the highest standard & are commonly in use on F1 Stockcars, there were gheaper alternatives but I was reccomended to use these. I also asked about fitting rubber boots, but advised against them, theory being although they do keep some of the crap off the rosejoint any that does get in can't get back out again & does more damage. The supplier has over 25 years in Stockcar racing & uses the components on both track & road.
If your interested contact me on alan at phaeton dot plus dot com
Alan...
Thanks Alan,
and as Tony the Tiger says "They're Great"
Couldn't believe that they arrived today, Royal Mail actualy delivering on time....
Fitted them, tried to cut some spacers from the extra piece of tube, but got fed up of filing and used some 1/2" washers which did the trick and saved me some time, so now I'm fully adjustable both front and back (including ride height at the rear)
and as Tony the Tiger says "They're Great"
Couldn't believe that they arrived today, Royal Mail actualy delivering on time....
Fitted them, tried to cut some spacers from the extra piece of tube, but got fed up of filing and used some 1/2" washers which did the trick and saved me some time, so now I'm fully adjustable both front and back (including ride height at the rear)
Hi there my name is Matt, I was wondering if you have any of the rear tracking kits left still. I have almost finished my freestyle, and was planning on having it laser track in a couple of weeks. I have just joined the member list on the forum, but have used the forum and found it very helpful over the last couple of months. I am building Deluxe SVA Kit with a MG Metro engine, 13x7 alloys with 205-60-13 tyres. I bought my kit back in April and just need to fit wiring loom, finish brakes lines, and fit wheel arches. Any advice in the final stages of the build would be much appreciated. I live in Mansfield, but my parents live in Worksop, so could possibly collect the bits and have a chat?
Cheers Matt
Cheers Matt
Hi Matt,
I haven't any at the moment, sold the last set to Dave over the weekend, RichardG also asked for a set so if he still wants some I'll order some more parts, saves on postage if I built 3 or more sets. Anyone else want some?
Come chat & have a look, steal ideas whatever you want, My email's in several of my posts & my mobile is my ICQ number with a zero in front, send a text or give me a ring.
Alan...
I haven't any at the moment, sold the last set to Dave over the weekend, RichardG also asked for a set so if he still wants some I'll order some more parts, saves on postage if I built 3 or more sets. Anyone else want some?
Come chat & have a look, steal ideas whatever you want, My email's in several of my posts & my mobile is my ICQ number with a zero in front, send a text or give me a ring.
Alan...