Willie Discussion
- Thread starter Phaeton
- Start date
ChaosMS
Active member
if you want to throw me some dimensions I can put the frame together in solidworks for you - that would give you roll cage dimensions BoM etc, I have a few prebuilt models like seats that I can adjust to size for you so you get a good idea of the overall dimensions and fit
Have a think about it, I love designing this stuff so happy to help
Rich
Have a think about it, I love designing this stuff so happy to help
Rich
Rich does it go out on loan for a suitable deposit? Do you have a 38mm die, or would it accommodate a 38mm die?
I'll try to draw what I think is in my mind & let you have it, to see what you can do, when you originally IVA'd yours did you have to provide calculations about the frame?
I'll try to draw what I think is in my mind & let you have it, to see what you can do, when you originally IVA'd yours did you have to provide calculations about the frame?
ChaosMS
Active member
HI Alan, sorry I missed that bit!! - No I didnt need to show them frame calculations but they spent a good time looking at the construction of the frame and quality of the fabrication - I think if it looks ok and you havent done something stupid like put a 12inch spike in the centre of the steering wheel they are ok, I did however have to provide a LOT of photos to the insurance company to show the construction and prove it was scratch built.
What wall thickness are you thinking of for the 38mm tube and are you considering a combination of square and round tube? (my 32mm is 2.5 to 3mm)
Rich
IF & it is a big IF I go down this route, there's a lot to consider, I want to build a small(ish) Freestylesque road going buggy. It needs to have the characteristics of the Freestyle, short, small seating area, tubes over the head, (won't call them roll bars) with a MGF/TF subframe front & back. I don't really want to go down the route of building suspension units.
My initial thought is to start with 2 rectangle boxes made from 40x25 stood on it's edge, they will be each 550x1500, they will have a 200mm gap between them which will form a tunnel to take the cooling pipes, brake, fuel & electrics. The 38mm tube will go from the outside edge of each box behind & above the drivers head, somewhere above the engine height it will have another 40x25 going across which will form the basis of the engine cover & then 2 sections going down to start to form the tunnel. The front bulkhead will be a piece of solid plate or made up of box with only the pedal mounting area being solid the rest being aluminium. Down the side will be 38mm rails which will either terminate on the front bulkhead or terminate on another 38mm hoop which the steering column will hang off. Then there will be 2 upper bars coming from the rear hoop to the front hoop like the Freestyle.
My initial thought is to start with 2 rectangle boxes made from 40x25 stood on it's edge, they will be each 550x1500, they will have a 200mm gap between them which will form a tunnel to take the cooling pipes, brake, fuel & electrics. The 38mm tube will go from the outside edge of each box behind & above the drivers head, somewhere above the engine height it will have another 40x25 going across which will form the basis of the engine cover & then 2 sections going down to start to form the tunnel. The front bulkhead will be a piece of solid plate or made up of box with only the pedal mounting area being solid the rest being aluminium. Down the side will be 38mm rails which will either terminate on the front bulkhead or terminate on another 38mm hoop which the steering column will hang off. Then there will be 2 upper bars coming from the rear hoop to the front hoop like the Freestyle.
Probably 2mm but open to suggestions, pretty sure the Freestyles are only 1.2
ChaosMS
Active member
SO something like this then? I've used the same seat model I used for my buggy to give you an idea of the space, I think the outside of the two floorpan boxes should also be a length of tube so the the upper tubes fit better to it - if your ok with it Ill make that change, I will do you a drawing with some dimensions on it so you can see if firstly the seat is roughly the same size as yours (I can scale it so it is) and also the heights of the brace between the uprights of the rear bar and length of the roof etc so we can nail down the dimensions a little.
Going to be away for a few days so will do the drawings and dimensions when I get back
Rich
Rich, Where did you get the plans & the former?Hey Alan, I did the tube bending myself - got a tube former and a bottle jack and built this :
ChaosMS
Active member
Hey Alan, I did the plans myself around the only former I could find at the time, I got the former from a Landrover specialist who imported them from America, there are quite a few variations now from a few places, this is the type of former i have from another supplier:https://stakesys.co.uk/tube-pipe-benders/jd-squared-model-3-round-metric-tube-die-set
Thanks Rich, I think the plans are on the back burner again, my mind is racing all over about things I'd like to do, build a buggy from scratch, try to get a Freestyle, but I know the health problems that gave me, fit a supercharger to the Mevster, get a vintage car, buy a small pickup, get a quad, the list goes on & on.
Yep, Triumph Sprint ST, I said goodbye to that a few weeks ago, hence the cash in my pocket burning a big hole, there's too much space on the drive, now that I rarely see my Shogun except when the daughter breaks it, spent over 10 hours fixing it the other day, well 9.5 hours not fixing it & 30 minutes actually fixing it after looking in the right place.Didn't you have a bike as well Alan
ChaosMS
Active member
Hey Alan, apologies for not getting much further on the model Ill get it sorted soon with the rest of the frame.
As for the wall thickness comment that would depend on a few things, are you thinking of EVER putting it in a competition? if the answer is yes to that then I would check the competition blue book rules for roll cage wall thickness as that would apply to the upper cage, if your not going to compete in it then its a down to personal safety and the trade off on weight - the wall thickness on my buggy is 2.5mm on a 32mm tube its very strong, bends very well without creasing on the former but has weight to it, a friends MEV has a much larger diameter tube in its frame but its something like 1mm to 1.5mm tube wall thickness and its very weak even he says he doesent want to be in a "big off" with it!!
To add some perspective I nose dived the buggy (in one of its off road trips) into a bloody massive hole that neither I nor my passenger actually saw, the suspension travelled its full length and the wheel arches passed the indicators on the front and we hit bump stop, we got a 50mm dint in the front 3mm thick alloy panel, the steering wheel bent back but nothing else and it drove away, when I stripped it down the front lower suspension arms competition rose joints (which are built like brick sh!t houses) were all bent but still functioning, the chassis which took the full brunt of the impact distributed the impact and nothing bent.
Now you know me I over engineer everything and would rather go heavier and stronger - but in my opinion dont go less than 2mm on the wall, Ive found the thinner larger diameter stuff does not bend as well on the formers and you tend to get ripples or flat spots on the curve.
As for the wall thickness comment that would depend on a few things, are you thinking of EVER putting it in a competition? if the answer is yes to that then I would check the competition blue book rules for roll cage wall thickness as that would apply to the upper cage, if your not going to compete in it then its a down to personal safety and the trade off on weight - the wall thickness on my buggy is 2.5mm on a 32mm tube its very strong, bends very well without creasing on the former but has weight to it, a friends MEV has a much larger diameter tube in its frame but its something like 1mm to 1.5mm tube wall thickness and its very weak even he says he doesent want to be in a "big off" with it!!
To add some perspective I nose dived the buggy (in one of its off road trips) into a bloody massive hole that neither I nor my passenger actually saw, the suspension travelled its full length and the wheel arches passed the indicators on the front and we hit bump stop, we got a 50mm dint in the front 3mm thick alloy panel, the steering wheel bent back but nothing else and it drove away, when I stripped it down the front lower suspension arms competition rose joints (which are built like brick sh!t houses) were all bent but still functioning, the chassis which took the full brunt of the impact distributed the impact and nothing bent.
Now you know me I over engineer everything and would rather go heavier and stronger - but in my opinion dont go less than 2mm on the wall, Ive found the thinner larger diameter stuff does not bend as well on the formers and you tend to get ripples or flat spots on the curve.
No need to apologise at all Rich, this is all hypothetical anyway, not sure it will ever happen, I have been looking for formers though, around £400 on it's own then the rest of the metal to make it up.
I think it will need 3 main hoops, as a roll bar above my head, at the front to hold the steering column & potentially one at the rear to attach the down tubes to & pick up the suspension. I've had a quote from a firm on Rugby who does roll cages & using 38.1x2.65mm CDS he's only quoting £300 delivered so I'm not sure it's worth building a bander, although I'm sure it would make the rest a bit easier & maybe more aesthetically pleasing on the eye if some of the tubes bend rather than being straight..
In my mind it's a bit like the blue one on this US website https://www.dfkitcar.com/ but not sure I want the side rail quite as high, I had imaged it using thicker tubes 38mm, not sure what that one uses although the specs say 38mm https://www.dfkitcar.com/specs.php but maybe the whole thing is a lot bigger than it looks.
I think it will need 3 main hoops, as a roll bar above my head, at the front to hold the steering column & potentially one at the rear to attach the down tubes to & pick up the suspension. I've had a quote from a firm on Rugby who does roll cages & using 38.1x2.65mm CDS he's only quoting £300 delivered so I'm not sure it's worth building a bander, although I'm sure it would make the rest a bit easier & maybe more aesthetically pleasing on the eye if some of the tubes bend rather than being straight..
In my mind it's a bit like the blue one on this US website https://www.dfkitcar.com/ but not sure I want the side rail quite as high, I had imaged it using thicker tubes 38mm, not sure what that one uses although the specs say 38mm https://www.dfkitcar.com/specs.php but maybe the whole thing is a lot bigger than it looks.
I think it makes it easier, it might be that the last 6-9 inches taper inwards I want to try to keep the cockpit area straight, I understand that may lengthen it a bit, but Melvin gets away with it. I'm thinking the bottom/floor is box section, but the side which you'd rear your arm on, climb over to get in would also be 38mm tube. only thinking of box as it's easier to work with, or at least in my mind it is.