Common problem on bottom arm assembly?

[Mini Mad Max]

Hi everyone,
I have had the problem where i've gone fully adjustable up front, and the adjustable tie bar is too long, the thing is one end when fully on still has LOADS of thread left, so do i cut some off, I can't remember if this has been mentioned on here before also. I thought the frame was wrong as the standard mini tie bar was still too long with the standard bottom arms that i got with the kit. The other thing is, my travel has been limited quite alot because i have those minsport group a tie bars, and they foul on the box section, MUCH worse than the standard ones because the thickness of the adjustable end.
So do i move the plateto the edge of t he box section and make the tie bars shorter?
I need all the travel i can get.
I also found out that i'm going to have to return my GAZ shocks as they wouldn't fit under the coil springs, and were to fat to fit through the spring plates up front to mount them comfortably so would constantly foul. I have asked minisport if they would do a part exchange for the Spax Red shocks. Will these fit the buggy?
It's been a day of huffing and puffing. But the buggy is getting there.
Thanks,
MAx

 

[biddleboy]

well max i have the adjustible bottom arms and tie bars but not fitted them yet but alandid say i might need to cut some thread off the bottom arm to get the wheel to sit up straight don't know about my tie bars yet all so Ive just ordered my front coilovers gaz so i hope my springs fit any way weres the pictures

 

[esdebe]

Depends on they type of adjustable bottom arms you have.  All adjustable bottom arms are there to INCREASE camber but on the buggy we want to decrease it.  I have the type that has two threaded sections that meet in the middle, the way to use these is to chop between 5 and 10 mm of each end then reassemble them together, you can check how much you can afford to remove bu screwing the ends in till they butt against each other and see how much thread is remaining (remember to keep the lock nuts ON) then when you know how much spare thread  you have you can take them apart again and take the angry grinder to them to shave the required amount off).

Simon

 

[jason_l]

I have the adjustable ones on mine max, the big fat ones! think its the same ones as you! if you look through my build thread you will see them on the car! It does foul on the box xection but only when its jacked up, when mine is sitting on the floor its ok and doesn't foul and as its not going off road then should be ok.

If minisport won't trade the coilovers i will do a deal with you mate

Jason

 

[biddleboy]

Depends on they type of adjustable bottom arms you have.  All adjustable bottom arms are there to INCREASE camber but on the buggy we want to decrease it.  I have the type that has two threaded sections that meet in the middle, the way to use these is to chop between 5 and 10 mm of each end then reassemble them together, you can check how much you can afford to remove bu screwing the ends in till they butt against each other and see how much thread is remaining (remember to keep the lock nuts ON) then when you know how much spare thread  you have you can take them apart again and take the angry grinder to them to shave the required amount off).

Simon

yeah simon those are the ones ive got so i will keep that in mind for wen they get fitted

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Hi, thanks for the help,
But it's the tie bar that is too long, and doesn't meet the bottom arm. The bottom arm is fine.

I have the adjustable ones on mine max, the big fat ones! think its the same ones as you! if you look through my build thread you will see them on the car! It does foul on the box xection but only when its jacked up, when mine is sitting on the floor its ok and doesn't foul and as its not going off road then should be ok.

If minisport won't trade the coilovers i will do a deal with you mate

Jason

I have the Group A tie bars from Minisport. The on car adjustable ones. My shocks are standard not coilover sorry jason :-\ Plus Minisport are ok with me returning my shocks for Spax Red. Anyone had any problems with these?

I'll go out to the garage to get some pictures of my predicament if that would help.
Max

 

[Phaeton]

Max,

Which bit of the shock is fouling the spring, the bottom bit with the oil oe the top bit that covers the sliding part? If it's the latter an angry grinder is your friend. It should look like this



Alan...

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Hi alan,
I noticed that on the build manual today, But the thing is the shocks are too fat to fit through the holes in the coil spring plates on the bulkhead and meet in the middle where they mount comforatbly, that's where the fouling would happen.
I will get some pictures up of the tie bar problem tomorrow. It seems as if my tie bar mounting points are too far forward. Did anyone ever have to make their tie bar shorter?
Thanks,
Max

 

[Phaeton]

It's a while since I did this but if I remember correctly you do have to pull the bottom arm forward quite a long way. The top arm is in the wrong way round which means if you have the hubs on yu're forcing them into an unnatural position.

Alan...

 

[jason_l]

Hi, thanks for the help,
But it's the tie bar that is too long, and doesn't meet the bottom arm. The bottom arm is fine.

I have the adjustable ones on mine max, the big fat ones! think its the same ones as you! if you look through my build thread you will see them on the car! It does foul on the box xection but only when its jacked up, when mine is sitting on the floor its ok and doesn't foul and as its not going off road then should be ok.

If minisport won't trade the coilovers i will do a deal with you mate

Jason

I have the Group A tie bars from Minisport. The on car adjustable ones. My shocks are standard not coilover sorry jason :-\ Plus Minisport are ok with me returning my shocks for Spax Red. Anyone had any problems with these?

I'll go out to the garage to get some pictures of my predicament if that would help.
Max

Max, no worries on the suspension, looks like i may have to just get the new ones!

Here are my tie bars, i believe they are the same ones as yours from memory? I got the massive ones as i wanted it as strong as possible.

Thats what you have right?

Jason

 

[collie]

I also found out that i'm going to have to return my GAZ shocks as they wouldn't fit under the coil springs, and were to fat to fit through the spring plates up front to mount them comfortably so would constantly foul. I have asked minisport if they would do a part exchange for the Spax Red shocks. Will these fit the buggy?
It's been a day of huffing and puffing. But the buggy is getting there.
Thanks,
MAx

Hi Max, on the subject of shocks, I have Gaz shocks fitted up front and had no problems fitting them once I removed the sleeve:

 

[Danny]

I have hd to cut the sleeve off mine also

Danny

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Hi everyone, thanks very much for the help!

Hi Max, on the subject of shocks, I have Gaz shocks fitted up front and had no problems fitting them once I removed the sleeve:

Are they not really fat in the spring plates? I'll have some pics on in a moment.

My wonders about the tie bar though is that it fits with no bush but doesn't with one. I haven't tightened it up though yet, so do you think if i put the nut on and squeeze the bushes then will it fit? The other thing that made me really scratch my head was that the standard mini tie bar and lower arms wouldn't line up and it made me ponder that the tie bar mounting bracket was in the wrong place.
As i said before the pictures are on their way, need to be uploaded to photobucket first.

Max, no worries on the suspension, looks like i may have to just get the new ones!

Here are my tie bars, i believe they are the same ones as yours from memory? I got the massive ones as i wanted it as strong as possible.

Thats what you have right?

Jason

I'm affraid not jason again pictures on their way soon.
Max

 

[collie]

Are they not really fat in the spring plates? I'll have some pics on in a moment.

They were a bit fat against the spring plates, I packed washers to get the best angle and did enlarge the hole slightly as advised in the build manual, but once sleeves are remove they do fit snug!
Cheers,
Alex

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Thanks alex,
That will save me pennies instead of upgrading to spax. How do the springs sit on your plates now if the hole is bigger?

Here are my tie bar problems:

That's with the bush, but not tightened up, and as you can see annoyingly it doesn't line up.

It does line up without the bush though, so i was wondering if i should tighten it up really tight to squish the bushes so it can line up. How tight does everyone else have their tie bars?

This is where the big adjustable fat bit fouls, I wondered whether to move the plate forward and shorten the tie bar thread so then the tie bar is at the edge of the frame and at full rebound wont foul on the box section. What do you all think? Or just turn the female threaded sleeve on a lathe to shave a bit off or on the underside where the box is make it flat instead of round. If any of that makes sense :
The thread on this end is too long as you can see the female threaded sleeve is  screwed on fully and there is still all that un used thread.

The other thing is that the standard tie bar is longer than my adjustable when fully shrunk, so does that meen my frame is wrong, or do i have to be brutal and force the lower arm forward and push the tie bar into place?

Max

 

[collie]

From what I understand the assembly needs to be under some tension.
I didn't use all Poly bushes on mine, but one poly bush on the inside of the cockpit and one rubber bush on the outside.
Don't overtighten, there is a torque setting for bush end of your tie bar.
Have you cut the bottom arms as advised?  What happens if you increase the length of the bottom arm?

I'm probably not much use there, but trying to share my experiences.

 

[Mini Mad Max]

I've got my bottom arms set at approx 1.5 degrees negative camber. What confuses me is the ease of how danny's front suspension goes together in the build diary. Dave doesn't have to force them in different directions to get them to fit whereas i do.
Max

 

[collie]

I remain convinced that the jig was back to front when the side pieces were welded onto my buggy.
The Checkerplate triangle matches perfectly the rear triangle and not the front!  :-\
I get the impression Dave was under a lot of stress when I bought my buggy, so even with it's faults I am ultimately grateful I got one atall!
Back to the case in hand though, mine was a tight squeeze too.

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Hmmm, I just watched the build manual and when doing the right hand side lower arm dave puts a washer on the left hand side. Would this push it slightly more forwards? That might help me slightly if it did.
Max

 

[JAMIE B.]

Max, I had the same problen as you with the tie bar fouling on the box section, this really annoyed me having just sprayed the chassis. I ended up using  a K.A.D. rose jointed tie bars from mini sport. This resolved any fouling problems although not cheap !

(close up of tie bar where it meets chassis)