Bending ERW tube....?

[Shaggy]

Hey guys,

I have been quiet for a while now and worse than that my buggy has not progressed at all!! Anyway I have finally got the time to get back on it, and hopefully to get it tested before the fuel tank becomes a problem...

The major problem I have at the moment is that I need to get some tube bent... I have found a local supplier to get the tube from but I cant find anybody to bend it, I seem to remember Dave used to get it from a place local to him pre-bent and cut to size I have contacted everybody in the area and the closest I have found is a company with formers for 42mm however the tube is 38mm...

I know there are several new members here and I hoping somebody can help...please?


Cheers
Andy

 

[biddleboy]

hi andy were abouts are you as i could get it bent but ime in kidderminster and your proberly looking at about 10 to 20 quid a bend

 

[Shaggy]

Thanks biddleboy,

I'm just over 150 miles away in Devon 
I havn't bought the tube yet as I was thinking it might be simpler to buy from the place that can bend it....

If you could give me contact details or find out for me (I have a rough drawing I can mail you) I will happily sort the money up front and obviously a beer token or two for your trouble  ;D

This tube the only thing holding up my buggy now  : well until the next problem...

Cheers
Andy

 

[Mini Mad Max]

Hey,
This has no relevance to the tube, but you should start a build diary so we can all have a nosey
Max

 

[JAMIE B.]

Hi, maybe you have already thought of this, but why not use C.D.S tube (cold drawn seamless) same stuff as roll cages are made of. It may be more expensive but check out the photos of the crashed buggy on the home page, it may change your mind as the original tubing used doesn't seem to be up to much unless you are building a new exhaust  The reason I say this is, I cut three of the horizontal tubes from my buggy and wasn't overly impressed with the gauge used, at least with C.D.S tubing you are offered a lot more protection not to mention good mounting points for a harness. In fact Merlin motorsport sell this tubing and offer a bending service for custom applications in 38mm O.D.

Just a thought

Regards Jamie

 

[Shaggy]

Max, that would be a good idea, there are some pics floating about that I sent Danny ages ago,
The buggy still looks the same apart from a load more dust 
But I will get some more pics and start a build diary...

Jamie, I'm totally with you on the CDS tube but the buggy frame came complete from Dave just with nothing behind the roll hoop so I could add my own K series mountings, I figured it was best to stick with the same material, but if i was to build another it would all be in CDS for sure.

 

[iank]

Dave used DOM tube for the cage, which is halfway between CDS and ERW  (it's made like ERW, but then drawn over a mandrel to flatten the weld which removes the stress riser from the middle of the tube and improves the accuracy of the size/thickness).

While you need CDS for a racing cage due to the regs, but DOM/ERW isn't a huge problem for a cage on a car going road legal speeds IMO - if it gets hit hard enough to split then you're probably already dead.  It's still a lot stronger than a tin top roof.

Two companies with mandrel benders I know about are MNR up in Yourshire and MK Engineering who are close to Alan.
http://www.mkengineering.co.uk/

Why do you need bent tube BTW?  don't you just need some straight bits from the hoop down to the subframe?

 

[jason_l]

As above  ;D

I used CDS tube for my modifications to my frame and didn't need any bends, if you look at the 'Freestyle GT' build thread you will see the pics.

Jason

 

[Shaggy]

Hi Ian thanks for the info,

I guess what I want is DOM tube then  ;D

The reason foor the bends is difficult to explain, basically I'm going to have a roll hoop laying down horizontally coming out from the main roll hoop to the rear engine mounts, then have two straight diagonals between the two, doing it this way keeps it all as simple as possible, as the shocks and possibly later coilovers can mount to the tube, lights can mount to it, rear arches etc.

I'll call the two companies you mentioned on monday and see what they have to say...

Interesting build Jason... its bloody good for my motivation! 

Cheers
Andy

 

[jason_l]

Hi Ian thanks for the info,

I guess what I want is DOM tube then  ;D

The reason foor the bends is difficult to explain, basically I'm going to have a roll hoop laying down horizontally coming out from the main roll hoop to the rear engine mounts, then have two straight diagonals between the two, doing it this way keeps it all as simple as possible, as the shocks and possibly later coilovers can mount to the tube, lights can mount to it, rear arches etc.

I'll call the two companies you mentioned on monday and see what they have to say...

Interesting build Jason... its bloody good for my motivation! 

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,

I understand what you are saying. They are doing something similar with my frame. They will be putting in some bent sections in from the existing frame round to the new pieces that go down the back. They are talking about putting in extra side bars as well incase of a roll but i said no.....but after my girlfriend rolling her car 6 times last night im having second thoughts 

Jason

 

[HolyCount]

Hi Ian thanks for the info,

I guess what I want is DOM tube then  ;D

The reason foor the bends is difficult to explain, basically I'm going to have a roll hoop laying down horizontally coming out from the main roll hoop to the rear engine mounts, then have two straight diagonals between the two, doing it this way keeps it all as simple as possible, as the shocks and possibly later coilovers can mount to the tube, lights can mount to it, rear arches etc.

I'll call the two companies you mentioned on monday and see what they have to say...

Interesting build Jason... its bloody good for my motivation! 

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,

I understand what you are saying. They are doing something similar with my frame. They will be putting in some bent sections in from the existing frame round to the new pieces that go down the back. They are talking about putting in extra side bars as well incase of a roll but i said no.....but after my girlfriend rolling her car 6 times last night im having second thoughts 

Jason

Owwww --- I hope she is OK Jason !!!

 

[jason_l]

Hi Ian thanks for the info,

I guess what I want is DOM tube then  ;D

The reason foor the bends is difficult to explain, basically I'm going to have a roll hoop laying down horizontally coming out from the main roll hoop to the rear engine mounts, then have two straight diagonals between the two, doing it this way keeps it all as simple as possible, as the shocks and possibly later coilovers can mount to the tube, lights can mount to it, rear arches etc.

I'll call the two companies you mentioned on monday and see what they have to say...

Interesting build Jason... its bloody good for my motivation! 

Cheers
Andy

Hi Andy,

I understand what you are saying. They are doing something similar with my frame. They will be putting in some bent sections in from the existing frame round to the new pieces that go down the back. They are talking about putting in extra side bars as well incase of a roll but i said no.....but after my girlfriend rolling her car 6 times last night im having second thoughts 

Jason

Owwww --- I hope she is OK Jason !!!

She is amazing considering what happened! BMW clipped her at 70mph on the motorway, she didn't even have time to brake! Witness said the car rolled 6 times in total she was trapped in the car and the fire crew had to cut the roof off her car. Its only a Yaris but the shape of it meant the roll was clean. Haven't seen the car yet but i have been told there is little left, the force of the roll blew all windows out and ripped a hub clean off and shot it over the other side of the motorway!

She has 6 stitch's in her hand, 4 in her head and the usual nicks from glass and few bruises. She has no broken bones or fractures and is very lucky to be alive.

I know its off topic but i hope it makes people think about safety more! Its made me change my mind about a few things on the buggy. I will be getting the side web style clip on protectors to help and welding in alot more framework.

If it was me i would use CDS steel, the rest of the frame may not be made from this but if it helps at all with making is stronger than i consider it money well spent!  :-\

 

[Phaeton]

Glad to hear she's okay, what's happening to the engine  ;D

Alan...

 

[iank]

Glad to hear she's okay, what's happening to the engine  ;D

Alan...

Seems pretty minor injuries for a crash like that.  Hope she recovers quickly.  Must say my second thought was also about it being a potential donor

 

[jason_l]

She is ok which is the main thing.

Not sure about whats happening with the car. Its the 1.0 litre yaris so probably a nice small engine. If the engine is in one piece then i can seriously say it is probably a good option. Its an 05 plate that she owned from new and had only done 25k, been serviced by toyota every year without fail (last service only 3 weeks ago ) and she drives very carefully, just some other people don't seem to.

If people are seroiusly interested in the engine i will hopefully be seeing the car at some point so can get pics etc. Police are investigating first i believe and then it will go to a scrap yard i suspect but i can find out where its going.

Very sorry for taking this thread off topic..... :-*

 

[Shaggy]

Bugger 6 rolls, in a Yaris!!  I'm glad she's ok Jason,

Funny how everybody's thoughts are...

1. Is she ok?
2. Donor car...

Those little 3 pots do sound lovely at high rpm. 

Yeah I was thinking about CDS right from the start but as its all joined to a single piece of DOM I figure the extra strength isn't worth much as it'll just transfer to the DOM, however if I cant find the DOM it will be CDS.

I'm not sure how you go about calculating load when a stronger material is joined to a weaker one but as its the main roll hoop I don't like the idea of the CDS punching through or the DOM folding around it. It would be nice to understand how it could be calculated though.

When I discovered it wasn't CDS I was tempted to replace the whole frame with CDS but its an awful lot of work and DOM is pretty strong anyway, I had a chat with a welder friend and he reckoned it was 'plenty strong enough' so I'll stick with DOM and maybe if I'm really worried about it construct a replacement frame in the future once I'm on the road although somehow I think probably not 

 

[Danny]

try your best not to crash it! The way i look at it if you crash it your probably die with something entering the cab anyway.... grim but hey ho. Also that white buggy that is crashed is the one that got hit by a tractor fork so once again keep away from tractors

Good luck to see you back shaggy

Anybody heard from R1 Freestyle recently?

Danny

 

[Phaeton]

Martin at MK doesn't have a die for 38mm tube, I did find somebody in Sheffield who did & charged me £30 to make a piece like your after, as things are I could have had several for £50 as the setting up was the big thing. Assuming you want something along these lines



Alan...

 

[Shaggy]

Alan thats allmost exactly what I'm after, although slightly wider, could you let me have contact details or sort something please? money up front obviously  ;D

How is yours going by the way looking good in the pic, are you using the cable gear linkage?

Hi Danny, hows the trip going?

I'm back on the buggy, well before term time starts again anyway  

I just need to get the thing rolling, then it wont be such a mission everytime I want to work on it as I can roll it about, at the moment it gets religated to the darkest corner of my dads workshop! It would be nice to get it out in the sun  

 

[Phaeton]

I stopped doing anything on it for a while & then past it onto Wullie who I think has then past it onto somebody else.

Alan...