Winch/Starter reverse

[jim600]

I'm wanting to fit reverse to one of the buggies, but dont want to fork out for a fwd/reverse box as reverse only really gets used for getting in/out of the garage and turning around.

So thinking of using an electric reverse setup. Ideally I'd like to use a winch - I have a 12v 3000lbs winch on my pickup which happily pulls the buggy along at approx 1mph - which would be ideal, but unlike a starter motor it would always be engaged. If I used a winch with sprockets/jack shafts would it get damaged by being engaged all the time, I.E it would be spinning backwards whenever the buggy was moving.

Other option is a starter motor, but then are generally more expensive and more of a task to fit using gear rings etc, but I would get the advantage of it only engaging when in use.

I thought about putting gears on the winch motor and lifiting/pivoting it into position when it needs to engage but a chain/jackshaft setup would be much easier.

???

 

[offroad 68]

Fitting a ring gear to your jack shaft would be the best way to do it with a starter motor.
I have often thought about getting 2 cadet kart racing wheels and tyres and arrange them on a linkage so that they can be pulled down via a leaver in the cab and contact the clutches. The first tyre will touch the drive clutch and spin backwards then the second tyre will touch the first tyre and go forwards and touch the secondry clutch which will spin backwards, would need to keep the diameter on the drive clutch touching the tyre small and the secondry clutch big to make it reverse slowly.

Hope that makes sence ;D

 

[jim600]

Fitting a ring gear to your jack shaft would be the best way to do it with a starter motor.
I have often thought about getting 2 cadet kart racing wheels and tyres and arrange them on a linkage so that they can be pulled down via a leaver in the cab and contact the clutches. The first tyre will touch the drive clutch and spin backwards then the second tyre will touch the first tyre and go forwards and touch the secondry clutch which will spin backwards, would need to keep the diameter on the drive clutch touching the tyre small and the secondry clutch big to make it reverse slowly.

Hope that makes sence ;D

Yep, I see how that could work, An option for a buggy not running a battery, but seems complicated in comparison to an electric motor.

I think starter motor/ring gear is probably the best bet.

Do you know if spinning the winch motor backwards constantly (when the buggy drives forwards) would cause any damage? If the winch motor was connected by chain/sprockets to the jackshaft (no way of disengaging when moving forwards).

 

[Baloo]

hi
to keep the electric motor disconnected under normal running could you use a centralfugal clutch of a mower ?
dont know if a winch would spin fast enough to throw the arms out but a starter motor would
like this one ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QUALCAST-30S- ... 23153744b2

if its any good l have one like that you can have

dont think running a winch backwards through its own gearbox will last for long at all :-\

 

[jim600]

hi
to keep the electric motor disconnected under normal running could you use a centralfugal clutch of a mower ?
dont know if a winch would spin fast enough to throw the arms out but a starter motor would
like this one ?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/QUALCAST-30S- ... 23153744b2

if its any good l have one like that you can have

dont think running a winch backwards through its own gearbox will last for long at all :-\

Thanks for the offer, 8) Thats what I was hoping to do originally (although was struggling to find a suitable clutch). But this thread on minibuggy seems to suggest that the bearings wouldnt stand up to it. And as you say, theres the issue that the winch motor might not spin up fast enough to engage it.

http://www.minibuggy.net/forum/drivelin ... -idea.html

Not an issue with the starter as it would only engage when needed, I'm just worried how quickly a starter is going to overheat AND drain the battery in comparison to a winch motor.

I guess best option would be a manual way of engaging the winch motor (like mounting it on a plate that lifts up meshing the gears/sprockets - but I dont think you could hold it together well enough to not just end up with crunching gears, unless it locked in place.

OR wait for a cheap quaife box

 

[offroad 68]

Not to gloat but I do not have this problem with 140 bhp and press a button to make the engine run backwards ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I do know of one for sale (not mine) for £1500 without clutches.

What about running a starter or winch motor through a air con clutch?
The kart tyres idea would be easy enough if the clutches are the right sort of shape.

Another thing to watch is that an electric reverse does not flattern the battery to easily.

There is a thread on minibuggy from a while back about reverse that got very funny, had me in stitches.

 

[jim600]

Not to gloat but I do not have this problem with 140 bhp and press a button to make the engine run backwards ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I do know of one for sale (not mine) for £1500 without clutches.

Is that what they go for? Or is that expensive/cheap? I've only ever seen them upforsale on US forums/ebay in dollars.

Nice thing at the moment is both buggies run 503s and I have 3 spare ones so I can swap them if things go wrong.

Only other thing I can think of is something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polaris-Scrambl ... 3a6b4e6479

Polaris use the same comet type clutches and then chain drive from the sprocket, My polaris quad is about 45hp, not sure if it would stand up to the weight of the buggy.

 

[offroad 68]

I was looking for another rotax 793 for ages but thats all I could find, and not willing to pay that. You can get one from the states/canada but would cost more than that with postage tax etc and you do not know what you have bought until its to late.

Them polaris gearbox,s do not seem very strong, I had one in a Patriot buggy and it broke, I am told it is common with them.

Maybe put 2 503s in your buggy if you have them but that does not solve your reverse problem.

 

[jim600]

I was looking for another rotax 793 for ages but thats all I could find, and not willing to pay that. You can get one from the states/canada but would cost more than that with postage tax etc and you do not know what you have bought until its to late.

Them polaris gearbox,s do not seem very strong, I had one in a Patriot buggy and it broke, I am told it is common with them.

Maybe put 2 503s in your buggy if you have them but that does not solve your reverse problem.

If I could get one for closer to 1k then I'd be tempted but 1500 + all the cost of the extras needed to fit it is too much for me.

Think I'm going to go with a starter motor setup and a big battery.

 

[jim600]

I've been offered one of these cheap:

http://www.quaife.co.uk/shop/products/qbe35g

Problem is that there is a fairly heavy duty carrier on the buggy already incorporating the bearings/sprocket/disc all attached to the driveshafts SO I really wanted a reverse box that attached to the driven pulley and had a sprocket output so I could just run it inline with the exisiting sprockets.

Do you think the quaife box could be converted to run like that? If I could make up a sprocket adaptor to fit the output?

I spoke to someone today about the electric reverse and he was of the opinion its fine to get in and out of the garage but would be useless in mud/uphill.

 

[offroad 68]

Sounds about right on the electric reverse. Those fnr boxes are intended for in line on a prop shaft on a bike engined car, not sure how long they would last with side loads on the input/output also they have a lot of back lash in them which is not good for off road.

 

[jim600]

Sounds about right on the electric reverse. Those fnr boxes are intended for in line on a prop shaft on a bike engined car, not sure how long they would last with side loads on the input/output also they have a lot of back lash in them which is not good for off road.

Saw this setup done on another forum:

Presumably done to help with sideloads (although I think I'd attach any shaft support to the chassis/mount plate instead of the box itself.

If it was really cheap I think I'd give it ago, but it's not quite cheap enough especially once I've made up adaptors for sprockets. Everything else I've seen similar has alot of reduction.

 

[offroad 68]

Did you see that FNR box Blue dragon made from a sj transfer box, he has put details on minibuggy of how to modify it.

 

[jim600]

Did you see that FNR box Blue dragon made from a sj transfer box, he has put details on minibuggy of how to modify it.

I saw the thread he made on difflock at the time, too much machining for me - I'd have to get that done, which would probably put the price up similar to a used quaife box. But it looks like a 8) setup.