Engine conversions?

Mini Mad Max

Active member
Hi guys.
Is it possible so fit a v-tec conversion kit subframe to the buggy as they dont keep the same mini mounts and bolt onto the firewall and floor of the mini.
A v-tec would be awesome in a buggy as the twin cams act as versatile road engine at low revs and scary speed demon at high revs. So when you dab the accellerator pedal you wont go flying through the pearly gates backwards in a fireball.
Can you point out any other conversions that may work and help point out the problems with the v-tec kit.

thanks guys,
Max
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Like anything it is always possible to do things, given enough money & resources you could theoretically put any engine in the back of the buggy. In real terms it's not that easy, most of the Mini engine conversion rely on being able to extend the front of the Mini to cover the extra engine etc. However that is not possible in a buggy as the front is a fixed point, i.e. the bit which attaches to the rear of the frame. You could opt to move the sub-frame backwards giving you more room at the front, however that then causes problems with the diagonal downpipes. As I said anything is probably possible it just depends how much work you want to do.

Just an aside Max, if you are contemplating using the buggy on the road you may want to look into the insurance, mine is around £90 a year, I asked to put my 20 year old son on the policy it went up to £1400.

Alan...
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
I thought there would be a bit of umming and aring. And due to the insurance i think it might be wise to avoid a big engine.
thanks alan,
max
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
I have some good news,
Geoff from Watsons rally says he will make a conversion for the buggy if anyone is interested, i wont have me one for a while due to cash and getting mine SVAd by next april. Is anyone intrested?
Max
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Would love one & intend to have a different engine fitted over the winter of 2009-2010 but as Watson Rally charge around £800 for a standard 16V subframe that fits in the front of a Mini. This one will have to be a special build it may come out at more than the whole buggy kit. You will also need to address the gear change & clutch issues as well.

Sorry not trying to be negative, but I see the way forward will have to be a homebuilt subframe.

Alan...
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
Hi,
He says it shouldn't cost too much more, but more power on a mini engine costs tonnes to get the equivilent ov a v-tec. so you are getting your moneys worth. He said he just needs to reduce the subfame so then the normal mounting points of a mini can be kept.
E-mail him if you would like on [email protected]
he's very helpfull, perhaps we could maybe develope our own subframe for the buggy for other memebrs of the club.
Max
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
meh, i guess so. Do you know any conversions of them that keep the same mini subframe mountings? How much does the average conversion cost for one of them?
thanx, max
 

HolyCount

New member
"Mini Mad Max"":fmao6hpv said:
:lol:, what have you got?(said suspiciously). :lol:

LOL -- I have been getting together engines for two buggies and a Domino:

I have a 998 with a seized clutch, for one buggy, a 998 on the way for the domino, another 998 with cracked flywheel and casing as well as a 998 that came attached to the freestyle frame I just bought, which will donate it's flywheel and casing. As well as those the 4 seater frame came with a 998 with auto box.

Could ditch all those and get three Red Tops :lol: Maybe not :shock:
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
when it says bwm k-series, i think it means rover that was taken over by bmw, and then the twin over head cam was developed by bmw. The heads are off any rover with a k-series in it. but whats the point in converting the mini engine if you can just build a k-series buggy and get more power.
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
hi me again :lol:
I have found a couple more conversions which look promising. 16v mini shop looks to have the same subframe mounts:
popup_image.php

I am also enquiring allspeed on their conversions, they manage to keep thier subframes small enough to fit in a non modified round nose mini, so do 16vminishop. have a look at both websites:http://www.16vminishop.co.uk/index.php and http://members.aol.com/hallredrita/subframes.htm
hope this helps anyone, currently waiting on replies of e-mails, will update you on more.
Max
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
"Mini Mad Max"":52tdabpa said:
when it says bwm k-series, i think it means rover that was taken over by bmw, and then the twin over head cam was developed by bmw. The heads are off any rover with a k-series in it. but whats the point in converting the mini engine if you can just build a k-series buggy and get more power.
Max, it's the BMW motorbike K series cylinder head they use not one from any car.

FLEECEBAY

Alan...
 

Mini Mad Max

Active member
Hi guys,
I've come back with the all important info, watsons rally can now make a subframe kit for us, and total cost for the subframe, and suspension, driveshafts, etc is £1200.
Then allspeed also fits normal mini subframe mounting points, the allspeed big bore vaxhaull(redtop) kit inc P&P is £1550, allspeed's small bore vaxhaull kit(thats the 16v vaxhaulls up to 1800cc) inc P&P is £1250, and the allspeed v-tec inc P&P is £1505. The 16vminishop just sell on allspeed stuff.
Hope this helps
Max
 

Phaeton

Moderator
Staff member
Max,

Just gone through 16vminishop & none of the Allspeed subframes would be a straight fit. They all protrude further forward of where the front crossmember used to be. In each case it has been either removed, bend or lifted. They also remove the all important (as far as a Freestyle is concerned) mounting points which fasten the subframe to the rear of the frame. It may not be even possible to fit a none A series engine into a Mini subframe without cutting this member. From these professional companies you would be looking at a one-off custom subframe so I doubt those prices would hold. Also don't forget all these engines are rod change which is still feasible as the driver is still sitting behind the engine, once the engine sits behind the driver that is a whole different matter. Most also use a cable clutch again not an issue with driver behind engine, but almost unconceivable with engine behind driver due to the length of the cable required, however conversion to hydraulic clutch is probably possible with most systems.

As I see it there are only three realistic options.

A) Start with a Mini subframe attached to rear of the frame, then with an engine of your choice line up the Mini hubs with the differential of the engine. If this is possible with enough front clearance then manufacture some engine mountings on the Mini subframe. It maybe that with a custom manifold that came over the gearbox & a remote oil filter there will be enough room. You will need to have the driveshafts manufactured or at least do a cut & shut on a set on donor engine shafts & a set of Mini's.

B) Find somebody who is prepared to modify the rear of the buggy by taking away the Mini rear subframe completely. Build a new purpose built frame that picks up the rear of the existing frame, the two diagonal downtubes. Using wishbones & coilover shocks similar to the setup on a Locost, the engine might be made to move slightly rearward enough. You may still need to get driveshafts made as the track is likely to be too wide. There is still the issue of the gearchange & possibly handbrake

C) Again find somebody who is prepared to completely modify the rear end, this time using the suspension from the same car as the engine. If you consider most if not all of the small hatchbacks they all use McPherson struts with bottom wishbone suspension. The fabricator would make top suspension mounts to take the struts & somewhere to attach the bottom wishbones. But it again raises the issue of driveshafts, gearchange & handbrake.

I don't think it's a simple as you seem to think it is, lets face it if it was simple who would have a Freestyle with an A series over s 'proper' engine. Also on a personal note the sums of money you are talking about are unattainable, I hope to have my buggy on the road for sub £2K & would not consider a subframe engine transplant that would cost more than that.

These are my personal views, please feel free to completely ignore them, if the Watsonian or Allspeed is the way you want to go, then go for it more power to you. That's the whole ethos of the Freestyle, each to their own, we're not like the lookilikey copy each other Seven crew.

Alan...
p.s. to the other, sorry for the length of the post I know most of you won't have read so much in weeks, assuming you actually read it.
 

HolyCount

New member
"p.s. to the other, sorry for the length of the post I know most of you won't have read so much in weeks, assuming you actually read it."


....... I read it -- but have to go and lie down now :?
 
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