Which engine and which frame ?

[Baloo]

When I built my Frame (to use in Classic Trialling), decided to follow normal Race/Rally practice, and build it as light as possible....
Found that having that great ugly 'A' Series lump hanging in the back actually was of great benefit, as all the weight was right where you needed it, over the driven wheels.....
However, cos it's so light on the steering front end, it does tend to "push on"/understeer on the really tight stuff, usually just at the wrong moment!
So I would say, consider the 'A' Series option if you want to get up the really steep stuff, as its weight/position HELPS you succeed.
Also, 100 bhp from this unit is easily achievable, though not neccessarily cheap...
Agree with Phaeton, that you do NOT need huge power or state of the art engine and gearbox combinations to have a lot of fun, even a Mini 998 is a big laff..........

hi  wurzell

l am not expecting to use this up any really steep stuff, l have a particular use in mind for this buggy, l cant imagine how much it must cost to get 100bhp out of the A series, but however it much it is it cant be as cheap as you can buy a modern front wheel drive car of ebay for there's loads on ther for under £100  ;D
for the steep stuff l will have my justy 4x4 buggy, l am lucky enough to have a track at the bottom of my garden, its just a track that l have mowed out between the trees and bushes, its pretty smooth on purpose as l used to have a blitz 2 with a 1380cc A series which had very little in the way of suspension and it was almost impossible to drive at speed off road due to it bouncing and pitching about if the field wasent as flat as a pancake, further more the state of tune of the 1380 was such that the throttle was more of a switch you were either in the power band or you wernt and with all the bouncing about you couldent keep control of the pedal, l  am sure it would have been fine around a racing circuit on tarmac with smooth flow bends but offroad it wasent a sucess for me  hence my desire to use a modern production engine were the power delivery is more controlable
as l have a suzuki baleno sat on the drive thats run out of tax and test  l might as well use that as it fits the bill of being front wheel drive all alloy engine and box, 1600cc 16v giving 105 bhp,  it also usefull in the spares dept to as l have several vitara 16v engines ( same) left over from playing with suzuki sj's
so what l want to biuld is a very lightwieght 2 seat buggy for ripping round a grass track that has lots of sweeping corners and is pretty smooth as l roll it after use  :
heres a couple of vids, one showing a pal playing with a 13hp corperate day type buggy he bought of ebay and the second showing the layout of the track from the front bumper

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRKekc-qob8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfdhqupLvnI

if any one local wants to test there freestlye type buggy road legal or not around the track l can arrange that on a sat morning

cheers Andy

 

[wurzell]

Just watched the vids, I must say NO 'A' Series Mini engined Buggy I've ever seen will go quite as well as those beasts!!!
However, the joy and simplicity of the Mini engine in a Freestyle Buggy is that it will drop virtually straight in, without too much hassle, all the suspension and brakes are there too, hanging off of its subframe, and it's all so quickly and readily available, if at a price..Easily found and modified too.
Of course, I'm VERY biased in favour of the old Mini stuff, been around all that for as long as I can remember, and I'm probably too old now too change my ways!
If it was relatively easy and straightforward to drop a Red Top Vauxhall Motor, or for that matter anything similar in there, then I would probably give it a go, but I think quite a few other Forum members have considered these options, and then realised just how much work, and grief it is to actually do it....
Probably, even Dave (Smart) recognised the limitations of the Chassis design when it comes to accomodating any other Power Unit, as the RI Bike engined Chassis was never fully realised or finished, and sold recently as just another "unfinished" prototype, and I know that others are still struggling with feasible 'K' Series conversions....
Perhaps I'm just not a clever enough Engineer or Fabricator, having seen what miracles other people conjure up with their Projects, but personally, I think I'll stick with my antiquated, agricultural 'A' Series for now!!..

 

[Baloo]

Just watched the vids, I must say NO 'A' Series Mini engined Buggy I've ever seen will go quite as well as those beasts!!!


by beasts l guess you must mean the honda pilots,  they are a hoot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqYIU2Bz ... annel_page





However, the joy and simplicity of the Mini engine in a Freestyle Buggy is that it will drop virtually straight in, without too much hassle, all the suspension and brakes are there too, hanging off of its subframe, and it's all so quickly and readily available, if at a price..Easily found and modified too.

you make very good sense there, l keep coming back to the idea of a sub framed car as a doner, probally metro as they are so cheap, perhaps l could biuld the front end of a freestyle with a metro subframe on the rear, l havent ever seen a freestyle in the flesh so l dont really know whats involved here, but the idea of having a subframe with the suspension brakes etc already on it must  speed the construction up greatly and because of the intended use the limited suspension travel would be fine,  using a subframe rather rules out my suzuki baleno engine/box but as metros are so cheap l supose it dosent really matter, l bought a 1300 A series auto metro a few weeks back of ebay for the princly sum of £31   to use the engine in one of my other projects, here it is on the end of my unconventional engine crane

   

Of course, I'm VERY biased in favour of the old Mini stuff, been around all that for as long as I can remember, and I'm probably too old now too change my ways!
If it was relatively easy and straightforward to drop a Red Top Vauxhall Motor, or for that matter anything similar in there, then I would probably give it a go, but I think quite a few other Forum members have considered these options, and then realised just how much work, and grief it is to actually do it....
Probably, even Dave (Smart) recognised the limitations of the Chassis design when it comes to accomodating any other Power Unit, as the RI Bike engined Chassis was never fully realised or finished, and sold recently as just another "unfinished" prototype, and I know that others are still struggling with feasible 'K' Series conversions....
Perhaps I'm just not a clever enough Engineer or Fabricator, having seen what miracles other people conjure up with their Projects, but personally, I think I'll stick with my antiquated, agricultural 'A' Series for now!!..

dont know as  l would call the A series antiquated or agricultral  just heavy   l might go and investigate the nissan micra engine

Andy

 

[Baloo]

l need educating on metros and rovers  ;D
l have just been looking at the metros on ebay and most appear to be 1100cc or 1400cc l assume thats the same block with a different bore/stroke ?
are all the k series engines the same physical size, if l used a metro subframe does that mean a k series engine and box out of a rover 200/400 would drop in  ?

Andy 

 

[Phaeton]

Andy,

Probably best to go over to 16V Minis & have a read, they are full of knowledge about fitting just about anything into Mini's. As far as I know all the blocks are the same size but the gearboxes change, there are 2 kinds R65 & PG1, the PG1 is the cable/hydraulic clutch version but too big to go into a standard subframe IF you want to keep the same track as a Mini.

Alan...

 

[Baloo]

thanks Alan l will go and see what l can learn
is there an equiverlant forum for metros since thats what l might start with

Andy

 

[biddleboy]

andy if your starting with a metro i no some that selling one  any way i might take that invite up and pop up to see your supurb job of your project and have a chat about a freestyle as mine is still in chassis form at the mon you can give me a ring on 07510722649 about metro if you are intrested thanks steve.

 

[Baloo]

andy if your starting with a metro i no some that selling one  any way i might take that invite up and pop up to see your supurb job of your project and have a chat about a freestyle as mine is still in chassis form at the mon you can give me a ring on 07510722649 about metro if you are intrested thanks steve.

hi Steve
you are welcome to pop up and see it any time, and also if your freestyle is in kit form at the moment l would be intrested in having a look at that to see how its aranged, what size engine is the metro ?
will give you a call tomorrow
thanks Andy

 

[Baloo]

l would like to say thanks to Steve for letting me pop over and quiz him about the freestyle chassis, its been a great help
now that l have seen one in the flesh as it were l am convinced l need one ;D since you dont appear to be able to buy one  anymore l intend to make one but with a few alterations, maybe 5" longer wheel base so as l can have a compartment between the cockpit and the engine bay for a fuel tank ? and maybe 3 or 4" wider in the seating area ?
and lastly l am thinking of useing a metro subframe at the rear so as l have a bigger choice of engines,
or maybe even use an mgf as a doner that way things like handbrake, gear change and wiring are already sorted

Andy

 

[boger123]

hi baloo if i would of realised you was at Steve's today you could of popped round 2 doors away and had a look at my chassie as i started building 1 a while ago a bit longer at the back for the petrol tank and i made mine out of 40x40 box as i was planing on putting a 1800 rover in it but never got round to finshing it as i started building another 1 the same as Steve's and the other day i went to fit the mini seats and its a very tight fit so when you say a couple of inches wider that's a very good idea and i would think about raising the roll cage as when i sit in mine my heads very close and i think if you wore a helmet it would be eather closer i will look forward to seeing the pics when you start the build as it mite make me want to finish mine. here is a few pics of mine so you can have a look          http://photobucket.com/dave_060

 

[Baloo]

hi baloo if i would of realised you was at Steve's today you could of popped round 2 doors away and had a look at my chassie as i started building 1 a while ago a bit longer at the back for the petrol tank and i made mine out of 40x40 box as i was planing on putting a 1800 rover in it but never got round to finshing it as i started building another 1 the same as Steve's and the other day i went to fit the mini seats and its a very tight fit so when you say a couple of inches wider that's a very good idea and i would think about raising the roll cage as when i sit in mine my heads very close and i think if you wore a helmet it would be eather closer i will look forward to seeing the pics when you start the build as it mite make me want to finish mine. here is a few pics of mine so you can have a look          http://photobucket.com/dave_060

hi boger
sorry mate l dident know you lived a couple of  doors up from steve or l would have popped up and said hello, l am still finding my way around the forum and whos who etc, had a good look through your pics and all looks good to me, funny l thought about 40 x 40 box too, how far away from finishing yours are you  ?,
cheers Andy

 

[Baloo]

well l have taken the plunge and decided l am going to biuld a buggy along the lines of a freestyle not quite the same but simalar, you know the sort of thing, a wheel in each corner and the engine behind the seats
l have to finish my present project before l start physically on this one but for the time being l am going to collect bits and make plans,
l had already decided that l wanted  to use a metro or mgf subframe in the rear since it opens up more engine options for later upgrades

its too late to change my mind now,    l have been and bought this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWNX:IT

seemed a good buy to me since it has the drive shafts hubs etc and already incorperates the handbrakes in the calipers

l will pester you all with questions later  ;D

Andy

 

[boger123]

hi andy ive built the buggy ive just striped it down for paint my brothers flating the frame ready for paint and hopefully it will be ready to rebuild wednesday then i can start on the 40x40 frame as to me the 40x40 looks a better frame than the 25x25 but it is heavey  but i am thinking of doing one in all tube as i think that would look nice and a bit lighter than the 40x40.your  subframe looks a good setup what width is the front of the subframe where it will bolt up to the frame   cheers dave  

 

[Baloo]

hi Dave

so you will be out and about driving yours soon then  ,

the dimensions for the mgf subframe are 47" between the fixing holes in yellow, but you could easily lop them off and reduce it down to 41" red lines, if that was better

Andy

 

[Baloo]

on the subject of engine choice l was looking on ebay at the rover k series as l think that is what l am going to use, l was also pondering using an auto gearbox as l like them offroad, with this in mind l was looking at the under bonnet pics of various rovers and what struck me was that any rover that has any auto box has the engine backwards ie dissy at the drivers side instead of the passenger side, whys dis den, ?,
dont rover do thier own auto box as l assume the back to front engine is a honda unit ?

perhaps using an auto might also have the benifit that the engine is sat on the passengerside balancing up the wieght when theres only the driver in it

 

[boger123]

hi Andy so that subframe will line up with a standard freestyle frame as of the top of my head the back of the freestyle is 48inch's i reckon that will be a very nice set up better than the old mini subframe  what suspension are you using as for me driving my buggy about soon i don't now if you get the same but once you have built it you start loosing interst and you start looking for a next project (40x40 all tube) ???Ive been cleaning and painting all the parts for 2 days very boaring job cheers Dave

 

[Baloo]

hi Andy so that subframe will line up with a standard freestyle frame as of the top of my head the back of the freestyle is 48inch's i reckon that will be a very nice set up better than the old mini subframe  what suspension are you using as for me driving my buggy about soon i don't now if you get the same but once you have built it you start loosing interst and you start looking for a next project (40x40 all tube) ???Ive been cleaning and painting all the parts for 2 days very boaring job cheers Dave

Hi Dave
          yes it looks like the metro/mgf subframe will fit up to the back of the chassis ok,  but what l dont know is how much wider the track will be ?,  and if its say 4" wider would you want to make the front wider as well to match it ?
yes l know what you mean about wanting to move onto the next project  lol, here's one of my next projects, its going to be a lawnmower  :

l see there was a recovery truck in your photo album is it yours ?

Andy

 

[jason_l]

hi Andy so that subframe will line up with a standard freestyle frame as of the top of my head the back of the freestyle is 48inch's i reckon that will be a very nice set up better than the old mini subframe  what suspension are you using as for me driving my buggy about soon i don't now if you get the same but once you have built it you start loosing interst and you start looking for a next project (40x40 all tube) ???Ive been cleaning and painting all the parts for 2 days very boaring job cheers Dave

Hi Dave
          yes it looks like the metro/mgf subframe will fit up to the back of the chassis ok,  but what l dont know is how much wider the track will be ?,  and if its say 4" wider would you want to make the front wider as well to match it ?
yes l know what you mean about wanting to move onto the next project   lol, here's one of my next projects, its going to be a lawnmower   :

l see there was a recovery truck in your photo album is it yours ?

Andy

Hi Andy, mine is 12'' wider at the back and im planning on leaving the front as it is. Its also been lengthened by over 12'' to accomodate the fuel cell.  ;D

Also the smart car lawn mower looks great  ;D ever since the smart car was released i have wanted one and then spray it orange and write flymo down the side and put a big grass box on the back for a laugh 

 

[Baloo]

hi jason  12" wider on the rear that sounds mean ;D, you will have to rember that extra 12" when going through gate ways etc 
the best reference l can find for the track of a mini is 4ft or 1200mm if this is right then the mgf is nealy 8" wider at 1400mm, a bit more than l wanted really but l dont want to be shortening drivesnafts so l might go with it,
l feel the front could do with widening a bit maybe 100 to 150mm but the steering rack will be the limiting factor here unless the metro one can be used which l am just investigating, l quite like the small size of the freestyle so l dont want to go to big but would like to use stock subframes, driveshafts, steering racks etc so a bit more home work to do yet

andy

 

[jason_l]

hi jason  12" wider on the rear that sounds mean ;D, you will have to rember that extra 12" when going through gate ways etc 
the best reference l can find for the track of a mini is 4ft or 1200mm if this is right then the mgf is nealy 8" wider at 1400mm, a bit more than l wanted really but l dont want to be shortening drivesnafts so l might go with it,
l feel the front could do with widening a bit maybe 100 to 150mm but the steering rack will be the limiting factor here unless the metro one can be used which l am just investigating, l quite like the small size of the freestyle so l dont want to go to big but would like to use stock subframes, driveshafts, steering racks etc so a bit more home work to do yet

andy

Gateways! I had problems getting it on a trailer, front went on fine then the rear almost fell of the edges of the ramps. I need to put a reminder on the dash that the rear is ALOT wider, It does have a smillar stance to a go-kart so should handle like one, with any luck!

I was going to widen the front but like you have already pointed out i didn't want to start messing around with new racks/suspension etc. Although i will be converting to Coilovers on the front anyway.

You have the skills to make something from scratch though and should easily be able to design something that will work! Good luck mate, keep us all informed.

Jason :d