VOSA Emailed over Tank

[biddleboy]

Regulations will be angry if fuel tank steps foot inside passenger compartment. I see the only way to pass IVA is to have a fuel tank in a trailer, bit excessive, but then it's not in passenger or engine compartment.
Max

or have it made in bullet proof in a trailer with impact bars all around it ;Dlol

 

[Asbo]

just thinking out loud.....if a buggy was duel fuel(ie gas too)where would that tank be located? and,why not locate the petrol tank there instead? mind,glad mines is un-crashed and sva/mot'd. :

 

[collie]

thanks alan hope we get some were with it its just some think all of us can fall back on if we miss the dead line in april as for that idea andy i know watt you mean and yes that could wosrk as well

"If" is VERY optimistic for me! :-[

 

[Phaeton]

Well Alex I was playing with Mahesh's buggy last night & have put a fire extinguisher between the offside rear wheel & the subframe. I've used the bracket I said you could have (sorry), if a plate were put up from the subframe past the small diagonal bar above the clutch, then on to meet with the rear bulkhead & the engine cover & then attaching to the diagonal (roll to subframe) I see no reason why it won't IVA. On this particular one there is wiring & handbrake cables in the way, but with a little aforethought you could reroute them a different way.

Alan...

 

[collie]

Well Alex I was playing with Mahesh's buggy last night & have put a fire extinguisher between the offside rear wheel & the subframe. I've used the bracket I said you could have (sorry), if a plate were put up from the subframe past the small diagonal bar above the clutch, then on to meet with the rear bulkhead & the engine cover & then attaching to the diagonal (roll to subframe) I see no reason why it won't IVA. On this particular one there is wiring & handbrake cables in the way, but with a little aforethought you could reroute them a different way.

Alan...

Alan, this is exactly what I was thinking (great minds think alike) and was going to make up a cardboard template and take photo's, however I have been tasked with sorting the babies room which is currently the junk room. 
p.s. Clutch side is nearside isn't it?

 

[Phaeton]

p.s. Clutch side is nearside isn't it?

Yes it is, that might be the only bugbear, you may have to make a indent for the clutch to move into.

Alan...

 

[collie]

p.s. Clutch side is nearside isn't it?

Yes it is, that might be the only bugbear, you may have to make a indent for the clutch to move into.

Alan...

I need to find a Verto clutch slave first!  :

 

[yorkshire]

Does anyone know how the Blitz buggy is going to overcome this problem?

If there was a way of fitting a tank at the front is the fuel line allowed to run in the passenger compartment if it was in the tunnel with the gear shift and hand brake?

 

[Phaeton]

Had a reply back from VOSA looks very promising.

Approvals
                                       Testing and Support Services (TaSS)
                                                                     VOSA,
                                                                  Ellipse,
                                                              Padley Road,
                                                                  Swansea,
                                                                  SA1 8AN.
Good afternoon Alan ,

Thank you for your further enquiry regarding this matter. I apologise for
the delay in responding, but I am currently the only Technical Officer
advising on Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA) matters and as such it is
extremely difficult to respond to enquiries in a timely manner. You are
absolutely right about me needing a break having been on holiday, I am
tired already !!

The photographs do indeed appear to show that this installation would meet
the requirements of the IVA test. Obviously, I am unable to give you a
categoric assurance as I am not able to physically check the proposed
structure, but from the information you have provided, it seems your
solution is indeed suitable. However, it may be worth pointing out the
requirements under section 03A (Fuel tanks) items 5 (earth bonding) and 10
(drain facility) and 11(integrity from leaks) Assuming that these
requirements have been considered, this seems like a well engineered
solution.

I do hope this information is helpful, but should you have any further
questions, please do not hesitate to get in touch.

Best regards,

Mark

Mark Vickers Eng Tech MSOE MIRTE
Technical Officer
Approvals
Passenger Cars & Light Goods Vehicles
Vehicle & Operator Services Agency
Department for Transport.


These were the supporting images




Edit:- Thumbnails added

Alan...

 

[biddleboy]

alan wat does he meen about itams 5/10 and 11 earth bonding draining no probs and integraty from leaks

 

[Phaeton]

He means in section 03A of the IVA manual subsection 5, 10 & 11.

Subsection 5 says it must be earthed to the chassis, but if it's bolted in it will be, or you could add an extra earth strap as well.

Subsection 10 says if there is a leak then the fuel must go onto the floor

Subsection 11 says it must be leak free & if it does leak it cannot get into the passenger compartment.

Those are not the exact wording, but the gist of it.

Alan...

 

[biddleboy]

well guys it looks like we got one alternative with out spoiling the paint work as its all hidden behind the nose cone result i take it then Alan thanks again

 

[Skirrow]

I was going to put the tank in the traditional position, ie. fire extinguisher in engine compartment behind drivers seat. Like this one..

Is it not possible to just rivet some pieces of chequer plate or steel or something to the chassis to box the tank off? I appreciate that this is probably too simple but if anyone can point out the problems I'll get the idea out of my head!

Cheers,
Dave

 

[mud68]

Has any body actually put a tank in the front yet? The space under the front suspension or where the battery sits. Space / volume / SVA have all been discussed but I haven't heard any one mention they have done it yet.

Mine's under going a bit of a work at the moment (engine change and rear disc conversion) and I wouldn't mind relocating the tank to the front. Not to worried about capacity.

 

[Phaeton]

Dave,

Simply answer is we just don't know, there is the dispensation until April 1st this year once that's done it's unclear. I'm of the opinion that if you mounted the tank behind the driver, between the wheel & the subframe & boxed it/shielded it from the engine that you could argue it is not in the engine compartment. But it's going to take somebody to actually present one to find out for sure & it would be a risk.

Mud,

No not as far as I know, Steve (Biddleboy) did all the mock-ups but sold the buggy before completion I don;t think he actually got round to cutting the frame to make it fit. Andy (Angel Boy) has dome a little but his buggy wasn't standard anyway. http://www.muddybuggies.com/Buggies-For ... 964.0.html

Alan..

 

[Phaeton]

Just as I was pondering a few things as I do, in the rocking chair, with the slippers being warmed by the fire sucking on my pipe. Of another place to fit the tank, someone with a not complete buggy maybe able to get measurements & tell me if this is feasible.

If you removed the radiator from in front of the engine & put a firewall just in front of the water pump/alternator/crankshaft pulley would there be enough room between it & the wheel arch to have a custom tank made? Sort of in this space here

Am I missing something as this seems too easy?

Alan...

 

[esdebe]

the tank is the easy bit, moving the plumbing to the rad and relocating the rad is the hard bit.....  Don't forget to save space for one of those little gel batteries so that when you move the rad to the front you can relocate the battery to the rear

 

[Phaeton]

Battery can go at the other side above the gearbox, I even think you might get away with a fire extinguisher as a tank in this position.

Agreed putting the radiator at the front is not easy, but easier than not passing IVA?

Alan...

 

[Paul]

There are photos in the gallery of battery location in mine above the gearbox if it is of any use.

 

[Skirrow]

What's the advantage of having on the radiator side of the engine, why not on the other side so you don't have to move the rad? (like in the photo I posted to a few posts up?